Overhead Firing

[Cross698]

Overhead firing

V4 is the same as V2 in that:-
Page 35 "All vehicles and guns may fire over troops on foot, command units and dug in troops when the target is a vehicle. Mortars and infantry guns can fire indirectly over all units. All troops may fire over other units if either the unit firing or the target are on higher ground than any intervening troops. All other overhead firing is prohibited."

If a ATG Unit is masked by an Infantry unit (friend or foe) then an enemy tank opposite cannot trace a LOF to the ATG, but the ATG can trace a LOF to the tank (AFV).
What if the ATG was in a Bunker, would you allow the tank to fire at the bunker over the intervening infantry?

I don't tend to allow more than one unit into a building and normally treat as single story, as sometimes we have "they're firing from upstairs." Obviously bigger buildings this may be permissable as higher ground is not defined.

Do players allow SP Artillery such as Wespe fire indirectly, although in lists classed as Armour, but their off table equivalents can?

Thoughts?
:-

Thanks
Andy

[AJ at the Bank]

Hi Andy

My take -

(1) LOS is fine between the ATG and the tank - as INF unit is low profile and does not block LOS

(2) As per BKCII ...Tank cannot fire over INF to gun (if INF visible) ....but gun can fire over INF to Tank.

(3) What about if gun in a bunker? Unless you rule the bunker is higher ground than INF ...then Tank still cannot fire overhead. Field Defences rule re bunkers on p11 only refers to treating them a HAT for movement purposes .....so guess that its all just done to part of the normal pre-game checklist - where confirming relative heights of terrain features takes place. Perhaps a house rule that states than >Xmm calibre deployed guns are deemed average profile (as per any non-deployed gun profile) would help resolve.

(4) SP Artillery should be in the Artillery list if used On-table I believe. Artillery Support rules (p47) indicate that such artillery would still fire as Infantry Guns rules (per p45)...which allow for indirect firing as well as direct firing.
My guess is the Wespe is listed in the wrong place in the Armour list ...and should be in the Artillery List (as well as Off-table Support list) not as an AFV ..but as a ART:IG, with Exposed, Restricted Arc and Tracked abilities. However - I stand to be corrected!

Finally - Funny that the Wespe (and other units) listed as Off-table Support should have the Tracked ability listed.....I wonder why / what difference it makes ??

Hope this helps
Adam

[Cross698]

Thanks. Tracked ability - I suppose they don't have to stop at linear obstacles anymore!

[AJ at the Bank]

LOL

I mean if its Off-Table....movement irrelevant ...so why list an ability that only refers to movement?
Another oversight im sure

Adam

[Cross698]

Yes, I suppose SP is all that is relevant for off table artillery for the FAO bonus.

[Cross698]

Just noticed I've been promoted to Subaltern!

[Ithoriel]

Just noticed I've been promoted to Subaltern!

Congratulations! Well deserved promotion. Drinks on you in the Mess tonight

[Cross698]

Have to go on the chitty 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

NO CREDIT TO JUNIOR OFFICERS !!!!!

[petercooman]

LOL

I mean if its Off-Table....movement irrelevant ...so why list an ability that only refers to movement?
Another oversight im sure

Adam

I seem to recall that it made a difference for counter battery fire.

[petercooman]

Just checked, p49 counter battery fire hits towed guns on a 5-6 and self propelled on a 6. so while the tracked ability does not come into play, it does serve to show that the unit is self propelled for 'to hit' purposes.

[AJ at the Bank]

Yes - exactly .....Tracked ability not required for anything off-table.

Being a Self-propelled unit does matter -
(1) Per p47 - Get a Command CV bonus when calling in all self-propelled ....defined as Artillery having a Move value in the army lists.
(2) Per p19 - harder to hit by Counter-battery Fire.

But - in the Wespe example used (where it would be useful to have an ability listed)...there is no mention of off-table Wespes having the Exposed Ability  ...whereas the on-table Wespe does (p131/132)

Another one that got through?
Adam

[petercooman]

I believe mortars can't do counter battery fire, so the exposed ability would not come into play i think?

[AJ at the Bank]

Exposed Ability gives the Attacker an additional 1d6 for mortars, artillery or air attacks.

See how useful to list this one rather than Tracked - lol

[petercooman]

Yes true, forgot that one, didn't have the book with me when i replied!