Facebook: Friends of the Tank Museum

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Problem is that the specialist vehicle is never where you want it !

[Techno II]

Explain to a non military oik.

What's the 'big lump' (where those chaps are sitting) at the back of the turret for ?
A counterweight to the barrel ?

Genuine question.

Cheers - Phil

[Raider4]

The Russian BMPT "Terminator" is an urban combat vehicle based on a T-72 hull, but with the turret replaced with a new remote mount.  This carries 4x 9M120 Akata ATGMs, plus 2x 30mm autocannon and a coaxial machine gun as primary armament controlled by the primary gunner, and left and right 30mm automatic grenade launchers controlled by a pair of dedicated gunners.  The crew of 5 is rounded out by the driver and commander.  The vehicle is intended to support tanks in urban combat or in other close terrain, where they are at risk from infantry tank hunters, which the Russians had unpleasant experience of in Chechnaya.

Normal crew for a T-72 is 3, so that's probably going to be a little cramped.

[Raider4]

Explain to a non military oik.

What's the 'big lump' (where those chaps are sitting) at the back of the turret for ?
A counterweight to the barrel ?

Genuine question.

Aye, almost certainly. Probably incorporates some extra storage as well.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Had a look at Osprey NV 197 - looks like a turret overhang to allow for enhanced depression and recoil. N o pictures show the M48/60 stowage basket. Also the commanders cupola is right at the back of the turret in the rear overhang. The original vehicle was fitted with the same petrol engine as the M48A2, the USMC fitted theirs with desiels with more power and used them up to 1973, some at least at Guantanamo Bay.

[fsn]

Seems mostly to have been the commander and ammo.

But looking at size of the ammo you can see why.


I think it was two piece rounds?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

No one peice Nobby same on Conqueror, which I think has the same gun.

[Techno II]

How the frig did they get many shells of that size into the vehicle ?

Was it a one shot.....then go back 'home' and pick up another one ?

Or did some poor sap follow on behind with a big wheelbarrow ?

From the line drawings Nobby's posted, there's next to sod all room in there already ?
Talk about being bloody cramped !

Cheers - Phil. 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

It's got roughly 30 rounds mostly stowed as the turret floor. It was loaded through the turret hatches. The round shown in Nobby's piccy is HE. From the caption I have just seen the rounds may be separate loading. The enire design was badly conceived although popular with the crews as it was regarded as spacious, it's intended role was taking out the Soviet heavy tanks, specifically the T10/IS III, as the US Army didn't think their 90mm could do trhe job (it could with HEAT). Fior Phil - HEAT is High Explosive Anti-Tank, or hollow charge.

[Techno II]

I still can't get my head around how horrendously bloody cramped it would be in that space.

It must have been an absolute sodding nightmare to get 'extra'  shells in there, Ian....From what you've posted, in the past.....I believe YOU have been in that position.

Hats off to you, Matey !.....I wouldn't have been able to do that 'in my youth'......Forget nowadays.

Cheers - Phil 

[fsn]

No one peice Nobby same on Conqueror, which I think has the same gun.

You sure? Conqueror was definitely 2 piece and the diagram has "ammunition charge" and "ammunition projectiles"   

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

No Phil, I was a thumb in bum mind in neutral officer cadet in LUOTC. That unit was also 5th Btn of Her Majesty's 8th (Kings Liverpool) Rgt of Foot to give it it's full title. I have ridden in 432's and fired 25pdr, 105 mm Pack howitzers. Closest to riding inside  a tank was the Cheiftain engine deck before ending up to my waist in quick sand in Imber village. We were going to fire Cheifies but a minor royal turned and firing was canceled. I did get to get into Cents and Cheifies at RCMS in Swindon. They arn't to small, having designed ergonomically. For small tanks try a T55/62/64/72 et al, crews of those have to be 5' 6" or less in height.

Cheers

[T13A]

Hi

Tango One Three Alpha, Ajax, 2RTR, 1976

Chieftain Commanders Position (closed down, taken from the loader/radio operators position):



Gunner, also taken from the loaders position (you can just see the commanders hand on the  controller on the right hand side):



Loader/operator (me, you can just see the the edge of one of the two radios on the left, and some of the empty ammo racks, the (separate) bagged propellent charges were kept in coolant filled containers on the floor; when you opened the lid they 'popped' up as they had a spring underneath commonly called a zebbedy, people of a certain age will no why) 



Cheers Paul

[Techno II]

Good grief !!!!

How did folk (including you, Paul) manage to stay in something that small without losing your minds ?

EEEEEEK !.....

P.S......Is that a young version of that nice Mr Hussein.

Cheers - Phil

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Good shots

[fsn]

Glad to see that silly American notion of helmets wasn't part of your rig.

Good photos.


Phil, try watching some videos by the Chieftain on YouTube - especially when he does his emergency evacuation ("Oh no. the tank is on fire.") My admiration for men who fight in tanks increased tenfold after watching some of these.

[Raider4]

How did folk (including you, Paul) manage to stay in something that small without losing your minds ?

I vaguely remember reading about how part of the training is to basically lock the crew in the tank for an extended period - 48 hours, maybe?.

Hint - there's no toilet in an armoured vehicle . . .

Not something I'd have liked to go through.

[T13A]

Hi Phil

The only time it really got cramped was when we were fully 'bombed up', that was 54 (if memory serves) main armament rounds (APDS, HESH and Smoke) plus the relevant bagged charges (the ones for the HESH and smoke rounds were half the size of the ones for the APDS rounds), 6000 7.62 rounds for the Co-ax MG and the commanders MG (both GPMG's) in 30 x200 round boxes. Plus rounds for the smoke dischargers, our personal weapons (Stirling SMG's in those days) and again if memory serves space for some hand grenades, oh, and not forgetting rounds for the 'very' pistol! That said, I spent a lot of my time as the loader/operator so was the only crew member who could actually move around a bit (including making the tea). I started as a gunner which was great when shooting the bloody thing (I particularly enjoyed shooting the co-ax MG) but if there was no live firing going on it was a pain as the only crew member without their own hatch. On the other hand you could carry an awful lot of beer......

Me, on the right:



FSN......



They were introduced to help stop banging your head when inside and to cut down on the noise, they were not popular.



Raider4

I do remember being closed down (but not 'locked in') for between 2 and 3 days once for a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) exercise, and having to wear our NBC 'suits' which was pretty uncomfortable (and boring) but compare with the infantry we 'lived' in luxury.


Cheers Paul

[Westmarcher]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Paul (and thanks to Ian, too). I dallied with the idea of joining up in my youth but opted for the civvy life instead (but would have stepped forward if called up) so it's always interesting to hear how you guys got on. One of my neighbours ('young Guy' - deary me, he's in his forties, now - nice lad, later became a policeman, an anti-piracy security guard on tankers and now on MoD security at Faslane) saw action in a Chally in Basra, surviving a few hits by RPG's ("the tank rocked and we moved on") and recall seeing him on the BBC News standing beside the gouge in the side skirt armour of his Chally.

As for myself, all I've done is briefly had the pleasure of driving a Chieftain and, although I'm only 5' 8", found it quite cramped to get in and out of (mind you, I was 65 at the time!  ). No doubt a younger, slimmer self would have got in and out a lot more easily. Somewhat annoyingly, if placed back in the vehicle, I'm unable to fully recall how to go up and down the gears - somewhat incongruously, I vaguely recall the gear foot pedal is very much like driving a motorcycle. The Stormer and FV432 were a bit of a squeeze, too, but easier to drive. The Abbot was the worst - although the same chassis as the 432, as you may know, the 105mm gun takes up a lot a space and so the driver's area is one of the spaces reduced as a result - with the extra weight of the gun and turret, you could also feel a marked difference in the handling of the vehicle requiring a good bit more 'firmness' in operating the juice and steering sticks. Fun, nevertheless. As we were driving around and talking away I didn't realise what a geek I was until my ex-Army instructor asked me what regiment I served in!  (of course, I owned up) 

[Techno II]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Paul (and thanks to Ian, too).

Ditto ! Thanks, Both ! 

The photo of Paul sitting on the front of the tank, also helps me to  'get my head around' the size of some of the tanks themselves.
Bigger than I'd imagined.

Cheers - Phil