My understanding was that the only problem was with the paints containing Cadmium pigment which is toxic if inhaled and therefore not suitable for spray painting - pots are clearly marked where this is the case.

If Royal Mail plan on turning my paints into an aerosol spray during transit I'm not sure they are going to be much use upon arrival!!

Other than that acrylic paints can potentially cause an allergic reaction in those susceptible but we're talking an itchy rash not anaphylactic shock, as far as I know.

What next? Royal Mail won't deliver cards or letters in case someone gets a paper cut?? 

I have a reply from Royal Mail: (I inquired about the aerosol ban as well):
"Dear Mr Bevis

Thank you for your e-mail.

With regards to the sending of Aerosols through the Royal mail Network within the UK we have been given an exemption by the transport regulators to carry aerosols for personal grooming or medicinal purposes, whether or not these are marked as 'flammable'. We do not have an exemption to carry any other flammable items, so other items remain prohibited.


Water based paints are restricted which is a business decision under Royal Mail terms and conditions. As part of this there are specific volume an packaging requirements and if these are not met we may deal with your items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned (in whole or in part).


I trust this answers your questions, please be aware that we are constantly reviewing our policy and procedures.


Regards



Lee Burke
Dangerous Goods Team"

So, purely a commercial decision to restrict water-based paints. We have a stick to beat them with!

I am not happy with the reply, and will follow it up. If they fail to lift the restriction, then Leon, we have to petition the Queen to remove the Royal Charter the Royal Mail has. Afterall, if the Royal Mail is not fulfilling it's charter, then it should be removed. Being reduced to being called The Mail, making them sound like a seedy tabloid, might make their accountants sit up and take notice.

Good info/research SB.
Most interesting !
Cheers - Phil.

Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:32:47 PM

Water based paints are restricted which is a business decision under Royal Mail terms and conditions. As part of this there are specific volume an(d) packaging requirements and if these are not met we may deal with your items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned (in whole or in part).

So does this mean there is a set of requirements that once met would allow the posting of water based paints? If so what are they?

The new rule is a restriction, not prohibition. It states you can send a MAX of 4 pots/bottles/tubs [whatever you want to call them] each of no more than 150ml of water based paint. And they have to be wrapped in something like plastic to prevent leakages. Oil based paint was banned in May 2013, unless it was nail varnish for some reason in 30ml containers. It hasn't stopped me getting Humbrol paints off Ebay recently, but I think they came by private courier.

I think unRoyal Mail have completely overlooked the modelling/wargaming market, where pots are 10-30ml typically, and customers want 10-50 at a time! I suspect they are more thinking of tins of emulsion from Homebase or whatever.

As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.

What we now need to do is make them aware that we exist, that a lot of small containers of paint are shipped nationally, and lobby for a modification of the restriction, to say any combination of pots up to the maximum 600ml for example.

Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?

Mark

Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.

But a nice way of getting Royal Mail (Pah !!) lots of extra revenue for basically b***er all effort. (Says Mr Cynical B'stard)

Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM

Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?

Excellent point Mark.....I'm wondering about 'traditional' art suppliers as well.

Cheers - Phil

Thanks for the info Mark, that Lee chap is the same one I spoke to a while back and has forwarded my query up to the Policy Team.  I've still not heard anything back though.

Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?

Now we're past Smoggycon, I'll be working on getting the petition out into the railway community, plus the scale modellers and the general artists as well.

Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.

As a customer who ordered 15 Vallejo paints I am experiencing exactly that scenario. 4 parcels posted to New Zealand on 11th, 2 arrived on 20th, 1 arrived yesterday and still waiting on the last. Of course the last contains one of the key paints I need to progress my painting.... 

Regards,
Paul

PS Thanks again Leon for covering the extra postage 

Hi,

Thanks for starting this petition. We have been sharing it with all our Facebook and Twitter followers since Friday and it has had a very good response. We are a small family run business selling fine art materials and this restriction has resulted in us having numerous parcels destroyed. We sell lots of watercolour paint which comes in 5ml tubes so people are often buying more than 4 tubes at a time. In fact, we have been told if we are sending out a gift set which contains more than 4 tubes of paint, we have to break it up into separate parcels and send them separately!!! We have had to start using couriers for all our paint orders now including overseas which is much more expensive. We have been working with the Federation of Small Businesses to try and get Royal Mail to reverse this policy and we have sent them a link to your petition.

Keep up the good work and I hope we are able to bring about some change. 

Ken Bromley Art Supplies

Welcome Ken.
Good to have you aboard....even if turns out it's only for this 'project'.
Must be a right royal pain for you as well !!
The more the merrier.
Cheers - Phil.

Quote from: KenBromleyArt on 26 November 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Thanks for starting this petition. We have been sharing it with all our Facebook and Twitter followers since Friday and it has had a very good response. We are a small family run business selling fine art materials and this restriction has resulted in us having numerous parcels destroyed. We sell lots of watercolour paint which comes in 5ml tubes so people are often buying more than 4 tubes at a time. In fact, we have been told if we are sending out a gift set which contains more than 4 tubes of paint, we have to break it up into separate parcels and send them separately!!! We have had to start using couriers for all our paint orders now including overseas which is much more expensive. We have been working with the Federation of Small Businesses to try and get Royal Mail to reverse this policy and we have sent them a link to your petition.

Hi Ken, welcome to the Forum and thanks for the post.  Can you recommend some of the larger artist websites/magazines that I could contact to spread the word?  The artist community is probably one of the largest markets to be affected by these restrictions, so it would be good to get those guys on board.

Passed it around to a few contacts today. 
Cheers - Phil.

Hi Leon,

It does really affect the art industry. I have tweeted the petition to Winsor & Newton and Daler Rowney - two of the biggest manufacturers of paint in the UK and also Daniel Smith who are very big in the US. I also sent it to Painters Online who publish The Leisure Painter and The Artist Magazines and to the Artists' and Illustrators Magazine - these are the three biggest magazines for artists if you wanted to contact them direct.

It may be worth your while contacting some of the bigger art supplies shops too...

Best wishes,

Laureen
Ken Bromley Art Supplies
#PostOurPaint

Artists and Illustrators have just retweeted to their 7k followers...

Fantastic

I've had several thoughts this morning:
now RM is a private company, they do not have the right to threaten to prosecute "repeat offenders" any more than you or I do. You can only prosecute if a law is broken, and they would have to persuade a lawyer or judge of that. Simply wanting to post 5 pots of water is hardly a crime.

Destroying people's property is criminal damage. Therefore all companies that have had parcels "destroyed" should contact the police and/or their solicitor. Just because it is in their terms and conditions, doesn't give them the right to break the law.

Having read around the 'net, "destroyed" actually means being sent to auction in Essex, where certain Ebay sellers bulk buy the products and put them on evilbay.....

Having the threat of your parcel being "destroyed" probably comes under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

If I ask you to post something and threaten to blow up your house if you don't would be constituted as an unfair condition, not to mention threatening behaviour.  

I think a complaint to Trading Standards may be in order, as this is a purely commercial decision by RM, who have a near monopoly on small package posting, and is a restriction on free trade.

Department for Business, skills & innovation might be bothered as it affects exports from the UK. I had a read through the reasons under the petition and was surprised by how many people buy paint for modelling from the UK, eg in Russia, Brazil, America, Australia, Ireland.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-business-innovation-skills
Interesting they have an article about excessive courier charges!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/consumers-put-off-by-high-delivery-courier-charges

The MP to contact appears to be Jo Swinson:
https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/parliamentary-under-secretary-of-state-for-employment-relations-and-consumer-affairs
who'se remit includes the Post Office.

A good lawyer might question, or at least investitage, the RMail's right to arbitarily restrict mail, under the Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011. Any takers?

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/ensuring-the-future-of-the-universal-postal-service-and-post-office-network-services

There is a (dormant) petition to remove the Royal from Royal Mail, that might be worth backing now:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56821

Mark

We are currently working with the Federation of Small businesses who have legal experts, so hopefully they will be able to help us with this...

Great work by Mark and Ken !
Cheers - Phil.

Quote from: sultanbev on 27 November 2013, 10:30:20 AM
now RM is a private company...

According to an recently retired RM worker I know, RM is still 51% owned by HM Government - dunno if that changes any of you arguments Mark...?

The whole thing is still pretty bloody stupid...

KD

Excellent, thanks for the updates Mark and Ken, much appreciated.  I've also been informed by a Post Office manager nearby, that when these restrictions came into place earlier this year, there was nothing sent out to the branches at all.  Not in the business info back in January (?) and nothing in the public restriction amendments in July, so no wonder you get so many conflicting messages on what can/can't be sent at different Post Offices.