(https://change-production.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/9/fw/qf/sJFwQfHLnhQyYWm-556x313-noPad.jpg?1385005814)
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints (https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints)
What is this?
Due to recent changes in their shipping restrictions, Royal Mail will no longer ship more than 4 pots of water-based paint per package, with each pot having a maximum volume of 150ml. Packages which breach this policy are identified by x-ray and then sent away to be destroyed. Repeat offenders will then be prosecuted.
(http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ImageBin/PaintRegs.jpg)
Who does this affect?
There are a lot of people in the UK sending or receiving paints, whether for hobby or professional use, and policies like this are also restricting a variety of small businesses. Thousands of people order water-based paints every week, and we hope to gain enough support for Royal Mail to consider changing the restrictions on these items.
Why are these paints restricted?
We have spoken with various people about this, from Royal Mail themselves, through to the Department of Transport and the Dangerous Goods Office, and so far we have not been given a definitive reason as to why these restrictions exist. The Royal Mail allows shipping of alcohol of up to 1 litre in volume, even in glass bottles, yet five small pots of paint, less than 100ml total, would be against the restrictions. We are currently awaiting a reply from the Royal Mail Policy Team with more information on the restrictions, and whether a change is possible.
Should these paints be restricted?
We have provided Royal Mail with Material Safety Data Sheets from some of the more well-known manufacturers of paint, which show that these items are perfectly safe to ship. We will continue to collect evidence of this type and forward it to Royal Mail.
What is the aim of this petition?
Our initial aim is for a change to the policy to allow a larger volume of water-based paints to be sent in one package, a change to match the 1 litre maximum on alcohol would be ideal. Even an increase to 600ml total would be a great start. Many small businesses in the UK are having a very hard time at the moment, and lifting these restrictions would be a welcome boost to a lot of people.
What can I do?
First and foremost, we need people to register their support by joining the petition on Change.org. If you buy paints on a regular basis, please mention how many paints/occasions you are buying per year on average, as this will help us show the volumes of business RM is potentially missing out on.
If you are a manufacturer or seller of paints, please mention your company name as well.
Finally, please spread the word about this. We need to get the message out as far and wide as possible, so that we can gain enough support to make a difference. Please post it on any forums you frequent and any blogs you write, on your Facebook or your Twitter. The more coverage we can get, the more chance we've got of making a change, and then we can all get back to some painting!
Thanks for reading, your support is really appreciated.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints (https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints)
Done.
Leon, "Posted on: Today at 04:09:14 AM" you really never sleep, don't you ?
;)
Done.
It was probably one of the clones :p
PS: anyone have a clue how gw does this? They sell a wide range of paints and i can imagine they have the same problem? OR a company like valejjo? Does it limit the amount that can be sent INTO UK too?
Stupid rule. What are they hoping to achieve?
Done, and several non war gaming friends have signed as well :)
probably dreamt up by some ****hole bloody pen pusher with nothing better to do >:(, the economic situation is bad enough for business without this
Done.
How bacon any artist lib paving in a rural location hope to enjoy their hobby or even career.
Send it too the arts council too!
Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 November 2013, 08:11:45 AM
How bacon any artist lib paving in a rural location hope to enjoy their hobby or even career.
Apoplectic, autotext or thinking in a dimension mere mortals cannot comprehend?
Bloom in' auto correct!
Bacon always gains the upper hand!!!
Done
To get back to the matter in hand, would it be rasher to suggest posted paints tend to be streaky?
In the parlance, should I get my coat?
Done
Forwarded it too many many contacts
Ok signed and posted on about 10 gaming groups I know round the world on facebook
Turns out one of my best mates is high up in Post Office HQ.
Keen wargamer and painter too.
Hopefully he will be able to add some weight to it.
Miniature Bids has just posted it on face ache too.
Done
Done and with my full support
That's going to cover every box set of paint out there for all those big companies that do such things by online ordering. Scratch that one off the Christmas list GW.
Unless there are any bypass restrictions for gift/box sets?
Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 November 2013, 09:50:18 AM
Turns out one of my best mates is high up in Post Office HQ.
Keen wargamer and painter too.
Hopefully he will be able to add some weight to it.
Miniature Bids has just posted it on face ache too.
Miniature Wargames has as well now
Could it be bypassed by fedexing it?
done
Done !
Absolutely barking 'rule' from the PO.
Quote from: petercooman on 21 November 2013, 10:47:03 AM
Could it be bypassed by fedexing it?
A courier will take all sorts of stuff that the PO won't allow Peter...(My 'bulk buy' of acetone once a year has to come via a courier....I think
that's fair enough)..Trouble is, from my experience, there's usually a minimum charge of around a tenner....Which would make buying a handful of pots of paint way OTT cost wise.
Blanking ridiculous !
Cheers - Phil (I'm all cross now ! ;))
Quote from: Techno on 21 November 2013, 11:18:58 AM
Done !
Absolutely barking 'rule' from the PO.
My 'bulk buy' of acetone once a year has to come via a courier...
You must use a lot of nail varnish to have to bulk buy the remover!
Done
Infuriating for those of us that do not have a decent brick and mortar shop within 1000km! Is this a security thing, like airport carry-on restrictions? Is the woman who screwed up our postal service still in charge at yours?
Quote from: Techno on 21 November 2013, 11:18:58 AM
Done !
Absolutely barking 'rule' from the PO.
A courier will take all sorts of stuff that the PO won't allow Peter...(My 'bulk buy' of acetone once a year has to come via a courier....I think that's fair enough)..Trouble is, from my experience, there's usually a minimum charge of around a tenner....Which would make buying a handful of pots of paint way OTT cost wise.
Blanking ridiculous !
Cheers - Phil (I'm all cross now ! ;))
Well Phil , if there is no other way, it's a valid alternative. You can always group buy with club members etc... then it becomes more plausible i guess.
Quote from: Fenton on 21 November 2013, 11:22:31 AM
You must use a lot of nail varnish to have to bulk buy the remover!
Thank you Steve ! :-* :P ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: petercooman on 21 November 2013, 11:35:22 AM
Well Phil , if there is no other way, it's a valid alternative. You can always group buy with club members etc... then it becomes more plausible i guess.
If you can find a group of you to do a 'bulk buy'....It
might even work out cheaper !!
That'd give the PO a nice poke in the eye. ;) ;D...Serve 'em bloody right !
Cheers - Mr Angry. ;)
It's on SMP, and Deeside Defenders Group.
IanS
Just posted this on my FB page. Pretty sure at least one of those 4 options will attract the attention of those I know there :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This makes no sense. I can order and have sent to me 1 litre of Whisky in a glass bottle or a maximum of 68ml of water-based hobby paints in secure plastic containers.
As a wargamer and therefore painter of tiny metal soldiers, I'm not sure if this is:
1) Health and Safety Gone Mad
2) I Blame The Tories
3) I Blame Privatisation
or
4) The Terrorists Are Winning
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints
Signed. This is ridiculous.
Interestingly I had the same issue when relocation from Germany. I had to send the paints in the mail rather than in my luggage on plane. I spoke to the Frankfurt Airport Security which said (quote):
"In the end it comes down to the security office. Having a bad day and you loose them, safety sheet or not. Afraid there is another example of regulation without any sense attached."
Quote from: Ithoriel on 21 November 2013, 01:06:00 PM
Just posted this on my FB page. Pretty sure at least one of those 4 options will attract the attention of those I know there :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This makes no sense. I can order and have sent to me 1 litre of Whisky in a glass bottle or a maximum of 68ml of water-based hobby paints in secure plastic containers.
As a wargamer and therefore painter of tiny metal soldiers, I'm not sure if this is:
1) Health and Safety Gone Mad
2) I Blame The Tories
3) I Blame Privatisation
or
4) The Terrorists Are Winning
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/royal-mail-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints
Or Royal Mail chiefs drink more than they paint
Done. Regulation without reason = bureaucracy = regulation for its own sake. >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Fenton on 21 November 2013, 01:16:31 PM
Or Royal Mail chiefs drink more than they paint
=O =O =O =O =O =O
Quote from: Fenton on 21 November 2013, 01:16:31 PM
Or Royal Mail chiefs drink more than they paint
Yeah, I'm still waiting for him to finish his AWI he bought at the same time as mine three years ago!
Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 November 2013, 09:50:18 AM
Turns out one of my best mates is high up in Post Office HQ.
Can you PM me about that, I'd be interested in maybe getting in touch with him.
Quote from: petercooman on 21 November 2013, 10:47:03 AM
Could it be bypassed by fedexing it?
We can, but most of the prices start at around £10 for courier jobs unfortunately.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 21 November 2013, 12:18:21 PM
It's on SMP, and Deeside Defenders Group.
:-bd
Signed... :)
Parcelforce will take water-based paint i think, but it costs more? Although i heard rumours they were opening and destroying paints too.
I guess you'll just have to limit the water-based paints to 4 per package? :(
Quote from: Luddite on 21 November 2013, 04:38:40 PM
Parcelforce will take water-based paint i think, but it costs more? Although i heard rumours they were opening and destroying paints too.
I guess you'll just have to limit the water-based paints to 4 per package? :(
ParcelForce will take them, but it's £10 for a small package of 5 pots, so not really viable.
Is it just water-based paints? Or does it affect oil based paint too?
You could have the laughable situation where 20 pots of Humbrol enamel are okay, but 20 pots of Humbrol acrylic will be blown up in Belfast =)
Hmmmm.....
You don't think they've found a reason that enamels could be 'dangerous' being sent through the post.... and then confused them with acrylics ?
Just a thought.
Cheers - Phil.
Enamels are listed separately and are not allowed at all:
http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_BusinessCustomerBooklet_July2013_0.pdf (http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_BusinessCustomerBooklet_July2013_0.pdf)
Signed & shared on FB
These regulations are way stricter than IATA regulations
Interestingly radioactive material can be sent internationally as well :-\ . Anyone in need of my wmd arsenal?
How will modelling shops now receive their stock?
signed up.
W
Albie Bach is a postie - he's using it as an excuse to steal your paints.
I say we scrag him.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 21 November 2013, 06:29:34 PM
Albie Bach is a postie - he's using it as an excuse to steal your paints.
I say we scrag him.
Signed 2
Gentlemen.
If friend Bach is a postman and one surmises, Welsh, do you not think he has enough trauma in his life? Rather than "scragging" him, we should extend the hand of sympathy and kindness.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 21 November 2013, 06:25:40 PM
Interestingly radioactive material can be sent internationally as well :-\ . Anyone in need of my wmd arsenal?
How will modelling shops now receive their stock?
In Britain not many modelling shops stock radioactive materials. Is it different in Germany?
What about all those radioactive controlled cars that they sell!
Protons? 8-} 8-} 8-}
I've sent a note about this to a bunch of people selling paint on eBay too.
Good idea Wulf.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Wulf on 21 November 2013, 07:22:08 PM
I've sent a note about this to a bunch of people selling paint on eBay too.
Excellent, thanks for that, that was one of my jobs to do when I get in tonight. Can you forward me a list of who you've messaged if possible?
Oh... I didn't note... one selling lots of 5, one selling packs with 8 in them...
..erm... no idea, sorry :-[
Quote from: Wulf on 21 November 2013, 07:40:26 PM
Oh... I didn't note... one selling lots of 5, one selling packs with 8 in them...
..erm... no idea, sorry :-[
No worries, some of them will get a second message, but the more the merrier!
1000 supporters, amazing response in only 15 hours!
:-bd
Quote from: Leon on 21 November 2013, 08:01:27 PM
1000 supporters, amazing response in only 15 hours!
:-bd
Someone on TMP was saying that this was to do with Dept of Transport and not Royal Mail..as DHL and some others have been instructed to do the same thing...This correct Leon?
Having trouble signing via my iPad for some reason, so I'll try tomorrow on my PC.
I've forwarded the message to everyone I can think of in the model railway community too, as it will affect them too.
How will this be endorsed anyway? Are the PO going to open every package to check there is not too much paint, or are they relying on senders to police themselves?
Cheers,
Kev
Edit: As I got a confirmation email, evidently signing did work, though I got a message saying it failed!! I hate computers sometimes ;D
Quote from: Fenton on 21 November 2013, 08:08:18 PM
Someone on TMP was saying that this was to do with Dept of Transport and not Royal Mail..as DHL and some others have been instructed to do the same thing...This correct Leon?
I've just replied to that chap:
The DoT was one of my first ports of call, as Royal Mail originally said that they were responsible for the restrictions. However, the DoT couldn't tell me why water-based paints would be included, and recommended I call the Dangerous Goods Office. The helpful chap there advised me that water-based paints are in no way dangerous goods, as evidenced by Section 14 of their Material Safety Data Sheets.
I then went back to Royal Mail with this information, and they moved my query up the chain to the Policy Team. As yet, no one has come back to me with anymore information as to why they have restricted these items.Quote from: Squirrel on 21 November 2013, 08:15:54 PM
How will this be endorsed anyway? Are the PO going to open every package to check there is not too much paint, or are they relying on senders to police themselves?
All external packages are apparently x-rayed on the way out, and any suspect packages are sent to Belfast for further investigation. They are then destroyed if they breach the guidelines. Internal packages are also x-rayed, but only in random batches I believe.
Thanks Leon for the answer
Signed
Quote from: Leon on 21 November 2013, 08:43:49 PM
All external packages are apparently x-rayed on the way out, and any suspect packages are sent to Belfast for further investigation. They are then destroyed if they breach the guidelines. Internal packages are also x-rayed, but only in random batches I believe.
So they won't allow a can of spray paint on a boat or a plane, but if they think maybe the package could explode, sure, send that on to Belfast?
Signed !
This is the guidance page
http://www.postoffice.co.uk/prohibited-goods-UK (http://www.postoffice.co.uk/prohibited-goods-UK)
It mentions corrosive/flammable paints etc - that's an obvious thing. It doesn't mention Acrylics. Nice if they got their story straight!
Quote from: clibinarium on 21 November 2013, 10:23:45 PM
So they won't allow a can of spray paint on a boat or a plane, but if they think maybe the package could explode, sure, send that on to Belfast?
Yep! And in some cases, they will send the goods back to the sender, despite it breaching their own policy... ???
Do you get the impression that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand's doing ?...Stroll on !
Cheers - Phil.
Duly strolled. :D
Also pasted the link onto TOE yahoo group and Forge of War Forum.
Ians
Signed and spread to my Swedish gaming contacts as well as posted on my site.
I NEED THEM PAINTS TO FEED MY HABIT!!!
Leon had to split my order in several parcels which surely buggered the postage fees....
The petition is now on the largest German gaming forum :D thanks to "Eversor".
My TOE post is being spread
ianS
It's on Kickstarter now as well. :D
Thanks for all the links, the UK Vallejo distributor has also posted the petition on their Facebook, and passed it onto the scale aviation modelling and the britmodeller websites.
Quote from: republic of tolworth on 22 November 2013, 02:15:36 PM
It's on Kickstarter now as well. :D
:o
It's what?!
:o
+1500 signatories now. :D
Passed it onto a friend well known in the modelling community so hopefully spreading there too. Power to the people :D.
Have we heard ?
Does the EE know about this ?
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 22 November 2013, 05:45:13 PM
Have we heard ?
Does the EE know about this ?
Cheers - Phil.
I've emailed them about it, but not heard anything back from them.
:-\
Signed!
Me signed!
An American just posted this on my 3mm yahoo group..might be of some interest
This may be a safety concern, which really does not make sense" I was told by a local hobby shop that he pays a tremendous amount to stock Vallejo Paint, because it has been redefined as very toxic by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency.) in the US
Quote from: Fenton on 23 November 2013, 11:29:08 AM
An American just posted this on my 3mm yahoo group..might be of some interest
This may be a safety concern, which really does not make sense" I was told by a local hobby shop that he pays a tremendous amount to stock Vallejo Paint, because it has been redefined as very toxic by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency.) in the US
Hmm.. that's interesting, not something I've heard before, so I'll have a dig about and see what I can find out on that front.
My understanding was that the only problem was with the paints containing Cadmium pigment which is toxic if inhaled and therefore not suitable for spray painting - pots are clearly marked where this is the case.
If Royal Mail plan on turning my paints into an aerosol spray during transit I'm not sure they are going to be much use upon arrival!!
Other than that acrylic paints can potentially cause an allergic reaction in those susceptible but we're talking an itchy rash not anaphylactic shock, as far as I know.
What next? Royal Mail won't deliver cards or letters in case someone gets a paper cut??
I have a reply from Royal Mail: (I inquired about the aerosol ban as well):
"Dear Mr Bevis
Thank you for your e-mail.
With regards to the sending of Aerosols through the Royal mail Network within the UK we have been given an exemption by the transport regulators to carry aerosols for personal grooming or medicinal purposes, whether or not these are marked as 'flammable'. We do not have an exemption to carry any other flammable items, so other items remain prohibited.
Water based paints are restricted which is a business decision under Royal Mail terms and conditions. As part of this there are specific volume an packaging requirements and if these are not met we may deal with your items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned (in whole or in part).
I trust this answers your questions, please be aware that we are constantly reviewing our policy and procedures.
Regards
Lee Burke
Dangerous Goods Team"
So, purely a commercial decision to restrict water-based paints. We have a stick to beat them with!
I am not happy with the reply, and will follow it up. If they fail to lift the restriction, then Leon, we have to petition the Queen to remove the Royal Charter the Royal Mail has. Afterall, if the Royal Mail is not fulfilling it's charter, then it should be removed. Being reduced to being called The Mail, making them sound like a seedy tabloid, might make their accountants sit up and take notice.
Good info/research SB.
Most interesting !
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:32:47 PM
Water based paints are restricted which is a business decision under Royal Mail terms and conditions. As part of this there are specific volume an(d) packaging requirements and if these are not met we may deal with your items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned (in whole or in part).
So does this mean there is a set of requirements that once met would allow the posting of water based paints? If so what are they?
The new rule is a restriction, not prohibition. It states you can send a MAX of 4 pots/bottles/tubs [whatever you want to call them] each of no more than 150ml of water based paint. And they have to be wrapped in something like plastic to prevent leakages. Oil based paint was banned in May 2013, unless it was nail varnish for some reason in 30ml containers. It hasn't stopped me getting Humbrol paints off Ebay recently, but I think they came by private courier.
I think unRoyal Mail have completely overlooked the modelling/wargaming market, where pots are 10-30ml typically, and customers want 10-50 at a time! I suspect they are more thinking of tins of emulsion from Homebase or whatever.
As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.
What we now need to do is make them aware that we exist, that a lot of small containers of paint are shipped nationally, and lobby for a modification of the restriction, to say any combination of pots up to the maximum 600ml for example.
Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?
Mark
Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.
But a nice way of getting Royal Mail (Pah !!) lots of extra revenue for basically b***er all effort. (Says Mr Cynical B'stard)
Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?
Excellent point Mark.....I'm wondering about 'traditional' art suppliers as well.
Cheers - Phil
Thanks for the info Mark, that Lee chap is the same one I spoke to a while back and has forwarded my query up to the Policy Team. I've still not heard anything back though.
Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
Has the restriction been notified to the model railway community, which is 5 times bigger than the wargames hobby?
Now we're past Smoggycon, I'll be working on getting the petition out into the railway community, plus the scale modellers and the general artists as well.
Quote from: sultanbev on 25 November 2013, 03:50:50 PM
As Leon has pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a customer wanting say 16 Vallejo paints, would now have to have them sent as 4 separate parcels, which is a bit ridiculous.
As a customer who ordered 15 Vallejo paints I am experiencing exactly that scenario. 4 parcels posted to New Zealand on 11th, 2 arrived on 20th, 1 arrived yesterday and still waiting on the last. Of course the last contains one of the key paints I need to progress my painting.... >:(
Regards,
Paul
PS Thanks again Leon for covering the extra postage :)
Hi,
Thanks for starting this petition. We have been sharing it with all our Facebook and Twitter followers since Friday and it has had a very good response. We are a small family run business selling fine art materials and this restriction has resulted in us having numerous parcels destroyed. We sell lots of watercolour paint which comes in 5ml tubes so people are often buying more than 4 tubes at a time. In fact, we have been told if we are sending out a gift set which contains more than 4 tubes of paint, we have to break it up into separate parcels and send them separately!!! We have had to start using couriers for all our paint orders now including overseas which is much more expensive. We have been working with the Federation of Small Businesses to try and get Royal Mail to reverse this policy and we have sent them a link to your petition.
Keep up the good work and I hope we are able to bring about some change. :)
Ken Bromley Art Supplies
Welcome Ken.
Good to have you aboard....even if turns out it's only for this 'project'.
Must be a right royal pain for you as well !!
The more the merrier.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: KenBromleyArt on 26 November 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Thanks for starting this petition. We have been sharing it with all our Facebook and Twitter followers since Friday and it has had a very good response. We are a small family run business selling fine art materials and this restriction has resulted in us having numerous parcels destroyed. We sell lots of watercolour paint which comes in 5ml tubes so people are often buying more than 4 tubes at a time. In fact, we have been told if we are sending out a gift set which contains more than 4 tubes of paint, we have to break it up into separate parcels and send them separately!!! We have had to start using couriers for all our paint orders now including overseas which is much more expensive. We have been working with the Federation of Small Businesses to try and get Royal Mail to reverse this policy and we have sent them a link to your petition.
Hi Ken, welcome to the Forum and thanks for the post. Can you recommend some of the larger artist websites/magazines that I could contact to spread the word? The artist community is probably one of the largest markets to be affected by these restrictions, so it would be good to get those guys on board.
:-\
Passed it around to a few contacts today. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Hi Leon,
It does really affect the art industry. I have tweeted the petition to Winsor & Newton and Daler Rowney - two of the biggest manufacturers of paint in the UK and also Daniel Smith who are very big in the US. I also sent it to Painters Online who publish The Leisure Painter and The Artist Magazines and to the Artists' and Illustrators Magazine - these are the three biggest magazines for artists if you wanted to contact them direct.
It may be worth your while contacting some of the bigger art supplies shops too...
Best wishes,
Laureen
Ken Bromley Art Supplies
#PostOurPaint
Artists and Illustrators have just retweeted to their 7k followers...
Fantastic
I've had several thoughts this morning:
now RM is a private company, they do not have the right to threaten to prosecute "repeat offenders" any more than you or I do. You can only prosecute if a law is broken, and they would have to persuade a lawyer or judge of that. Simply wanting to post 5 pots of water is hardly a crime.
Destroying people's property is criminal damage. Therefore all companies that have had parcels "destroyed" should contact the police and/or their solicitor. Just because it is in their terms and conditions, doesn't give them the right to break the law.
Having read around the 'net, "destroyed" actually means being sent to auction in Essex, where certain Ebay sellers bulk buy the products and put them on evilbay.....
Having the threat of your parcel being "destroyed" probably comes under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
If I ask you to post something and threaten to blow up your house if you don't would be constituted as an unfair condition, not to mention threatening behaviour.
I think a complaint to Trading Standards may be in order, as this is a purely commercial decision by RM, who have a near monopoly on small package posting, and is a restriction on free trade.
Department for Business, skills & innovation might be bothered as it affects exports from the UK. I had a read through the reasons under the petition and was surprised by how many people buy paint for modelling from the UK, eg in Russia, Brazil, America, Australia, Ireland.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-business-innovation-skills
Interesting they have an article about excessive courier charges!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/consumers-put-off-by-high-delivery-courier-charges
The MP to contact appears to be Jo Swinson:
https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/parliamentary-under-secretary-of-state-for-employment-relations-and-consumer-affairs
who'se remit includes the Post Office.
A good lawyer might question, or at least investitage, the RMail's right to arbitarily restrict mail, under the Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011. Any takers?
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/ensuring-the-future-of-the-universal-postal-service-and-post-office-network-services
There is a (dormant) petition to remove the Royal from Royal Mail, that might be worth backing now:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56821
Mark
We are currently working with the Federation of Small businesses who have legal experts, so hopefully they will be able to help us with this...
Great work by Mark and Ken !
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: sultanbev on 27 November 2013, 10:30:20 AM
now RM is a private company...
According to an recently retired RM worker I know, RM is still 51% owned by HM Government - dunno if that changes any of you arguments Mark...?
The whole thing is still pretty bloody stupid...
KD
Excellent, thanks for the updates Mark and Ken, much appreciated. I've also been informed by a Post Office manager nearby, that when these restrictions came into place earlier this year, there was nothing sent out to the branches at all. Not in the business info back in January (?) and nothing in the public restriction amendments in July, so no wonder you get so many conflicting messages on what can/can't be sent at different Post Offices.
Quote from: Leon on 27 November 2013, 03:22:55 PM
Excellent, thanks for the updates Mark and Ken, much appreciated. I've also been informed by a Post Office manager nearby, that when these restrictions came into place earlier this year, there was nothing sent out to the branches at all. Not in the business info back in January (?) and nothing in the public restriction amendments in July, so no wonder you get so many conflicting messages on what can/can't be sent at different Post Offices.
I see a deliberate scheme. Must be my German nontrusting self.....
I have just posted it on the Mantic forum
I've now setup a Facebook page for the Post Our Paint campaign as well, which should make it easier to update and discuss the latest news, and also answer any queries which come up: https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint (https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint)
8)
Quote from: Kiwidave on 27 November 2013, 01:00:43 PM
According to an recently retired RM worker I know, RM is still 51% owned by HM Government - dunno if that changes any of you arguments Mark...?
The whole thing is still pretty bloody stupid...
KD
Since Charles 1, it has been established that "Royal" does not mean "authorised to disregard the law" in the UK. And well done, all of you. Death to bullies!
Quote from: Leon on 28 November 2013, 12:46:27 AM
I've now setup a Facebook page for the Post Our Paint campaign as well, which should make it easier to update and discuss the latest news, and also answer any queries which come up: https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint (https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint)
8)
Spread the word!
Have posted on the Flames Of War site.
Waiting to be banned...
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 27 November 2013, 04:31:18 PM
I see a deliberate scheme. Must be my German nontrusting self.....
No 'Seb'...I'm sure you're right....Just been doing a few calculations....and unless I've got my sums
completely wrong....(And I'm pretty sure I'm right, though).. .It will cost twice as much (purely from the inland/GB
POSTAGE point of view) to send 16 17ml pots of Vallejo in four separate 'jiffy bags'.....as it would to send ONE package containing all 16 pots. (I'm only talking about INLAND/GB packages here).
They'll all be going to the same addy....So what's the big deal ?....Extra money for nothing it would appear.
From (for example) Leon's point of view....That also means 4 separate 'jiffy bags'.....Extra cost...4 little bags will cost LOTS more than 1 large one.
This smells poo ! >:( >:(
Cheers - Phil
The question is whether another mail carrier would be inclined to take our money (within reason) ;)
If (R)M intends to screw us we can equally screw back. Are there any news how the EE is dealing witht his matter?
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 28 November 2013, 11:10:07 AM
The question is whether another mail carrier would be inclined to take our money (within reason) ;)
From previous dealings with couriers....For example when I order something like 'iffy' like acetone....There's been a minimum charge of around £10....But that covers 'me' up to some sort of weight like 10kg.....(I think)
So what I do, is work out how much I can get, and stay within that particular weight limit.
Fair enough.... I end up with about 6-12 months worth....But it works out a
damn sight cheaper than buying it in 500ml bottles from some pharmacy or other.
Personally....Just at the moment I can't see the current courier firms being able to lower their charges to cover much smaller (lighter) items to make it viable for themselves.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 28 November 2013, 11:10:07 AM
Is there any news how the EE is dealing with this matter?
My main
question here is.....Does the EE use the 'normal' mail to send smaller packages ?
Be interesting to know. :-\
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 28 November 2013, 12:10:13 PM
From previous dealings with couriers....For example when I order something like 'iffy' like acetone....There's been a minimum charge of around £10....But that covers 'me' up to some sort of weight like 10kg.....(I think)
So what I do, is work out how much I can get, and stay within that particular weight limit.
Fair enough.... I end up with about 6-12 months worth....But it works out a damn sight cheaper than buying it in 500ml bottles from some pharmacy or other.
Personally....Just at the moment I can't see the current courier firms being able to lower their charges to cover much smaller (lighter) items to make it viable for themselves.
My main question here is.....Does the EE use the 'normal' mail to send smaller packages ?
Be interesting to know. :-\
Cheers - Phil
Ok I have to ask but but who are the EE?
Errrrrr.....
The Evil Empire...some firm in Nottingham Steve. ;) ;D
Dammit...I used to work for them in a previous life.....When they weren't EE....Oh....What was their name ? ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Ah ok...too many abbreviations these days
Thanks for the info
TTFN
;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
You're SO right though.....Far too many abbreviations nowadays to keep up with all of them.
Makes a change for me to actually be able to give an answer !
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 28 November 2013, 12:10:13 PM
My main question here is.....Does the EE use the 'normal' mail to send smaller packages ?
Be interesting to know. :-\
Cheers - Phil
Having only ever ordered directly from the EE once (epic models were mail order only), i got my stuff sent over from a EE store in the netherlands, instead of directly from UK. So they might be able to evade the problem for europe. you can also choose to pick up your mail order stuff in one of their shops , so that evades another problem INSIDE uk (wich is stupid as the shops hold their line of paint anyway)
Quote from: petercooman on 28 November 2013, 03:05:44 PM
Having only ever ordered directly from the EE once (epic models were mail order only), i got my stuff sent over from a EE store in the netherlands, instead of directly from UK. So they might be able to evade the problem for europe. you can also choose to pick up your mail order stuff in one of their shops , so that evades another problem INSIDE uk (wich is stupid as the shops hold their line of paint anyway)
And how does that stock get into the shops :-\
I know the GW Belfast store, everything comes by courier not sure if that via Dublin or another way
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 28 November 2013, 03:32:37 PM
And how does that stock get into the shops :-\
By truck? I can imagine they just send a truck on it's way that can do quite a few shops in a days worth. They would be daft to send it by mail, by truck would be cheaper
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 28 November 2013, 03:32:37 PM
And how does that stock get into the shops :-\
By their 'own' vans Seb.....Or possibly by a courier that delivers to a number of shops in the 'same' area.
Being a bigger firm...they'll be able to get a decent deal, if the latter's the case....
I'm sure they won't use the PO to do that 'job'.
Cheers - Phil.
GW have emailed me back, and said that whilst they do use Royal Mail for their standard postage level, they will be continuing to send paints through the post as normal.
So, basically ignoring the regulations until they get stung.
I was also under the impression they use Royal Mail. They might alter that but thats their problem not mine or Leon's.
What concerns me is getting my Pendraken goodies WITH paints in ONE sending which INCLUDES the minibits order.
As you can see I am a greedy German :D
Quote from: Leon on 28 November 2013, 07:30:14 PM
GW have emailed me back, and said that whilst they do use Royal Mail for their standard postage level, they will be continuing to send paints through the post as normal.
So, basically ignoring the regulations until they get stung.
See you in the 'Mods' section re this ;)
Changed my mind....I'll mail you. ;)
Cheers - Phil
May I suggest a sneaky email to RM concerning the Evil Empire's intentions? ??? :D
On the contrary - let them do it so that in future you can say "well, GW do it, so why can't we?" Nothing like setting a precedent - especially at no risk to yourself. ;)
Quote from: Hertsblue on 29 November 2013, 08:23:44 AM
On the contrary - let them do it so that in future you can say "well, GW do it, so why can't we?" Nothing like setting a precedent - especially at no risk to yourself. ;)
Well you know that has not worked for Cally in MyLay or some Germans in (and after) Nuremberg..... Some people are more equal than others.
English law is built on precedent.
The problem that some people are more equal than others persists. Never mind the legal system.
Sad, but true ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
I was in the sorting office picking up a parcel Thursday. Acrylic paints are NOT mentioned in the 'Prohibited' list - they mention other kinds.
I was in my local model shop today. The shop owner said it was affecting her business.
Quote from: fsn on 30 November 2013, 10:07:12 PM
I was in my local model shop today. The shop owner said it was affecting her business.
What like proper models?
Umm can I have 2 Heidi Klum's a Kate Moss and a packet of Natalia Vodianova please
Quote from: Fenton on 30 November 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Umm can I have 2 Heidi Klum's a Kate Moss and a packet of Natalia Vodianova please
Heidi Klum's
what? Errr, on second thoughts, don't answer that.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 30 November 2013, 09:19:23 PM
I was in the sorting office picking up a parcel Thursday. Acrylic paints are NOT mentioned in the 'Prohibited' list - they mention other kinds.
No...not in the prohibited list LH.....Pretty sure it's the
restricted list where you'll find them. :(
Cheers - Phil.
The WWI Railgun and the Ratte are big enough to conceal some paint pots possibly?
YOu could disguise the Vallejo ones as ammunition rounds
Hi Leon,
Signed the petition. I'd just change to a different carrier. There are enough of them these days.
John C
PS When are you going to produce my CTV? :)
Quote from: John Cook on 04 December 2013, 12:51:32 PM
Signed the petition. I'd just change to a different carrier. There are enough of them these days.
A lot of the couriers have similar restrictions in place, or they use Royal Mail at some stage of the delivery and would have to abide by RM's guidelines. The ones that will ship the paints start at around £8-£10, which is just too much for a small package of 5 paints.
I've recently spoken to a few firms that sell paints as a sideline (while I've been ordering some bits and bobs from them, modelling wise......Don't worry...Not things you stock up there Leon. ;))
Most of them don't seem to be bothered that much at all....Which I've found a little strange. :-\
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 04 December 2013, 07:15:36 PM
I've recently spoken to a few firms that sell paints as a sideline (while I've been ordering some bits and bobs from them, modelling wise......Don't worry...Not things you stock up there Leon. ;))
Most of them don't seem to be bothered that much at all....Which I've found a little strange. :-\
Cheers - Phil
I think the lack of enforcement by Royal Mail has got a lot of people thinking 'Oh well, I'll just keep sending until they catch me..' which I can understand I suppose. It'd be good to have their support anyway, even if they are still shipping the paints.
You're probably right there Leon, though one said they were already using couriers.....Which seems a tad expensive. :-\
Are there any daily papers we know of that dislike the post office and would readily have 'a pop' ?
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 04 December 2013, 07:58:25 PM
You're probably right there Leon, though one said they were already using couriers.....Which seems a tad expensive. :-\
Are there any daily papers we know of that dislike the post office and would readily have 'a pop' ?
Cheers - Phil.
Possibly, newspapers and local MP's will be the next port of call, I've been waiting until we hit the 3000 signatures before launching the next stage.
Signed...first post as well...I think this is important.
Hello Hussargeneral
Welcome
Does this mean Last Hussar has to change his forum name now?..
Welcome Mr General.
May I invite you to tell us more on the "Intros and Welcomes" section?
We love to hear about a new member's doings.
Welcome to the forum Hussargeneral.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: fsn on 09 December 2013, 06:39:58 PM
Welcome Mr General.
We love to hear about a new member's doings.
I beg your pardon
As we mentioned previously, Royal Mail have changed the reasoning for these restrictions from 'Dangerous Goods' to 'potential damage to other mail', so we have now sent them a list of questions as a result:
"As a follow-up to our recent discussions on water-based paints, and the restrictions on them in your guidelines, I have a few more questions:-
1. In our original discussions, the reason given for Parcel Force being able to ship these items was due to them having a Dangerous Goods license. Now that we have determined that these items are not in fact 'Dangerous Goods', what is the new reason for Parcel Force being able to ship these paints, and how are they overcoming the same 'potential damage to other mail' reasoning which worries Royal Mail?
2. Do you have any statistics which show the frequency of breakages/leakages in the mail, and more specifically, how many of these are caused by water-based paints?
3. The restrictions allow the shipping of upto 1 litre of alcohol, does this not pose a greater risk of leakage / breakage than 4 small pots of paint, even more so when the alcohol is likely to be shipped in a single glass container?
Many thanks,
Leon Pengilley"
We will now have to wait and see what they reply with before proceeding.
In the meantime though, we still need to grow the support, and get this noticed on a national scale by the mainstream media. To do this, we're asking you to help out by doing two things:
1. Write to your local MP, using the template which can be found on our new Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint/posts/245576305607450 (https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint/posts/245576305607450) (modify it to suit if you wish). A full list of UK MP's listed by their consituency can be found here: http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/?sort=1 (http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/?sort=1) If you get a response, please let us know on the Facebook page, or by email to me directly at leonpengilley@hotmail.com
2. Write to any local newspapers or other media in your area to bring this to their attention as well. The MP letter template linked above can be used for this as well, with only minor modification.
Also, please head over and join our Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint (https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint) which allows us to keep everyone up to date with the latest news and discussions as we move forward with this. You can also update here as you get responses from your local MP's / media.
Thanks for reading, and again, thank you for your support. Please pass this update around your friends, forums and Facebooks, and we'll keep pushing to get these restrictions changed!
PS, I hope everyone has a merry Christmas as well, there might not be many paints under your tree, but I hope there's something good in their place...!
Cheers!
a small step toward Victory ?
Email sent to Mike Crockart who is not only my constituency MP but also on the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee - auto-reply from him says he hopes to respond within two weeks, though I wouldn't hold him to that given the season of the year!
I've been following (and affected) by this for a while, but this is my first post here... please be gentle with me :)
If we find Royal Mail starting to be less than forthcoming with information, I spoke with the FSB legal advice line today, and they confirmed that Royal Mail would still be obligated to respond to Freedom of Information Requests relating to any events prior to privatisation, as they were effectively a public body at that time. They also advised that if this is confirmed to be a commercial decision by Royal Mail rather than a regulatory one, that if they followed through with their threats of prosecution, the only immediately obvious grounds would be breach of contract (although we didn't discuss whether this could be extended in the event of an actual incident). In addition, if the currently unsubstantiated rumours are true, and Royal Mail are really sending confiscated parcels for auction rather than destruction, then they could potentially be exposed to litigation on the grounds of selling goods which are not their property.
I've been lobbying within the FSB for a while about this and other Royal Mail issues, although it is hard pushing it up their list of priorities when there are so many other things that are also on their radar. As a member of their Surrey Policy Team, I was able to draw up a questionnaire on Royal Mail issues and get it sent out to Surrey & Sussex members, and I believe it's now been adopted and sent out in a variety of other regions as well. Admittedly it was created before this issue arose, but hopefully it'll keep post issues on the FSB radar.
Having written to Damian Collins MP (the Conservative Small Business Champion for the South East) about Royal Mail issues about 2 months ago and received no reply, I am less optimistic about political support - I guess the MP's all got free shares and lined up for nice cushy non-exec directorships ;)
Leon - I included a link to your petition in the email newsletter I sent out this evening, so hopefully that'll add a few more signatures although it's a pleasure to see how many of my existing customers have already signed !
Hopefully that helps a little :)
Thanks for the post, good to hear from you, and thanks for all the info and work at your end.
The FSB advice is very interesting, and will be of help when it comes to getting some data from them on how many breakages/leakages they've had previously. I'm very interested in the rumour you mention as well, and I've tried to do some digging on that, but nothing concrete seems to be out there. We'd really need someone down in the Essex (?) area who knows of any auctions/sales of that type who could verify that they were re-directed confiscated goods or not.
I'm not sure how much impact contacting the MP's will have, due to the privatisation of RM, our smaller issue getting onto their radar and their daily workload of regular stuff, but it's always worth a try. The opposition MP's are always looking for a stick to beat their counterparts with, so you never know. If some of the local newspapers can pick up on the story as well, that might get a lot more coverage for us.
One large market which is yet to fully get on board is the artists, as I don't think they've seen any direct effect at their end yet. If we can tap into that, there's potentially 100's of thousands of extra people, giving a lot more sway on a political level as well.
8)
Quote from: Leon on 09 December 2013, 08:24:28 PM
1. Write to your local MP, using the template which can be found on our new Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint/posts/245576305607450 (https://www.facebook.com/PostOurPaint/posts/245576305607450) (modify it to suit if you wish). A full list of UK MP's listed by their consituency can be found here: http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/?sort=1 (http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/?sort=1) If you get a response, please let us know on the Facebook page, or by email to me directly at leonpengilley@hotmail.com
A couple of points about this:
1.
Don't just copy & paste the text from Facebook. By all means use it for inspiration, but use your own words. WriteToThem has a quote from a parliamentary researcher (whose job is to make the MP he/she works for as accessible as possible) about why in their FAQ:
QuoteMPs rather naturally take a sudden influx of identical or similar messages with a large pinch of salt, since they know that what they are seeing is stuff from a minority of constituents who are either impassioned/neurotic about the topic concerned or who are easily gulled into agreeing with some plausible story and sending the message, since it takes minimum effort to do so.
Given a daily mailbag of (say) 50 individual messages from individual constituents, on a wide range of topics, when the mailbag suddenly rises to 100 a day, 50 of which are much the same as each other, the representative has no way at all of knowing whether the message concerned is representative of opinion in the constituency.
All he or she knows is that 50 constituents have been persuaded to mail them about 'topic X'. Much more notice is taken of trends within the regular flow of messages from clearly identified constituents. If in a month 50 people write in different ways and through different routes with similar views on a subject, this is much more likely to raise the profile of the topic with the MP.
Full FAQ entry at https://www.writetothem.com/about-qa#formletters
WriteToThem is a website set up to make it easy for people to contact their MP. If you want to write to your MP about this, it's an excellent resource: https://www.writetothem.com/
The same people made WhatDoTheyKnow, a website that makes it easier to make freedom of information requests, which may be useful in the near future: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
I noticed that this issue has made it to the mainstream realms of printed media:
http://henrys-wargaming.co.uk/?p=1542
Quote from: Steve J on 12 December 2013, 07:29:26 PM
I noticed that this issue has made it to the mainstream realms of printed media:
http://henrys-wargaming.co.uk/?p=1542
Excellent, looking forward to seeing my name in print (albeit missing the 'e' in Pengilley!)
;D
Today the printed press, tomorrow the world!!! :d :d
Quote from: Leon on 13 December 2013, 04:03:44 AM
Excellent, looking forward to seeing my name in print (albeit missing the 'e' in Pengilley!)
"Pngilley"?
More like 'Pngilly' surely? :D ;)
is it a silent Png ?
=O
Just looked I think they corrected your name..Well I am presuming you are still using the common spelling of Pengilly.That would be correct Sir Leon wouldnt it
Quote from: Fenton on 13 December 2013, 10:00:23 AM
Just looked I think they corrected your name..Well I am presuming you are still using the common spelling of Pengilly.That would be correct Sir Leon wouldnt it
We're using the re-located-tin-miner, lost-in-translation, can't-spell-in-the-19th-century spelling with the 2nd e, so 'Pengilley'. The original Cornish surname doesn't have it in.
On a sidenote my Pendraken orders (with paints) arrived this very moment. Leon (or one of his clones) dutifully packed the 4 pots into a separate plastic bag to avoid ANY hard feelings by the postal service.
Sidenote to the sidenote: I fail to fathom how much paint might leak from a Jiffybag but being german I apparently lack the imagination. The only thing left to wonder if Leon will charge me for that bag and moreover if he wants it back :D
Good to hear it arrived OK, we're packing all the paints in little gripseals now just to keep RM happy...
That's privatisation for you.
:(
Oooops Luddite...I mistook it for "plain stupid and getting caught". ;D :D
Sod the petition - Though I have signed it.
We need to form a para-military wing to fight RM. :d
We can start by posting things that are within the stupid rules but can cause more damage than paint. We will start with 1 litre glass bottles of water wrapped in brown paper. When its miss-handled as its usually is by our Dear RM - (No offence Albie). It will break and cause lots of wet post.
If they fail to respond and realise how illogocal there rules are we will progress to sticky bombs ( jars of jam). After that its chemical warfare with bottles of Urine and flimsy packs of Horse dung :-&(Techno will supply this ) From his horses I might add. (Neither Urine or Dung is included in the prohibited list.)
We can go on to form a "Political wing" to deal with the media and explain how much post is being damaged by the allowed goods and how little damage paint does. :-bd
I propose that we use Hugh for this, as a man of the cloth O:-) he should be seen as a resonable and of Impeccable character :-\ (Hopefully Mrs Hugh won't say anything)
All we need now is a suitable name - suggestions please gents
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 13 December 2013, 08:10:34 PM
If they fail to respond and realise how illogocal there rules are we will progress to sticky bombs ( jars of jam). After that its chemical warfare with bottles of Urine and flimsy packs of Horse dung :-&(Techno will supply this ) From his horses I might add. (Neither Urine or Dung is included in the prohibited list.)
:-\ :-\.......Well, We've got tons and
tons of the stuff......But I'm pretty sure that the dear (PAH !) PO would class that in the prohibited list under, Waste, Dirt, Filth or Refuse. ;) :)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 13 December 2013, 08:42:11 PM
:-\ :-\.......Well, We've got tons and tons of the stuff......But I'm pretty sure that the dear (PAH !) PO would class that in the prohibited list under, Waste, Dirt, Filth or Refuse. ;) :)
Cheers - Phil
OK Urine is used in Tanning and what does the local Garden centre charge for manure?
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 13 December 2013, 08:10:34 PM
We need to form a para-military wing to fight RM. :d
Para-military - does that involve jumping out of aeroplanes? :-& :-& :-& :-& :-&
It wont be long before the royal rip of (royal mail) will only allow four figures to be posted
take care
andy
Quote from: Womble67 on 14 December 2013, 11:03:59 PM
It wont be long before the royal rip of (royal mail) will only allow four figures to be posted
I have heard from a manufacturer fairly recently that the PO
had complained about the amount of metal sent in a package....Though they were alright about it in the end. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Cheers - Phil
just read Leon's article in this months Miniature Wargames. I have already signed the petition as living in Northern Ireland it is difficult to find anywhere that stocks a good supply of figures let alone Paints. One thing has struck me: 'Parcel Post' isn't that the Royal Mail 'courier' service for want of a better word? If they allow paints to be transported is this all a dastardly plot to force suppliers to use their high priced service? Then again. what happens if paint is bought from abroad and the supplier uses their local postal service which has no such limitations regarding the quantity of paint. Isn't Royal Mail obliged to deliver such a parcel s under international reciprocal agreements? Can you imagine the furore if say the US postal service discovered that parcels where being interfered with?
Good to hear the magazine has arrived, ours should be dropping through the letterbox as well soon then!
Quote from: Nirnman on 20 December 2013, 02:34:16 PM
Then again. what happens if paint is bought from abroad and the supplier uses their local postal service which has no such limitations regarding the quantity of paint. Isn't Royal Mail obliged to deliver such a parcel s under international reciprocal agreements? Can you imagine the furore if say the US postal service discovered that parcels where being interfered with?
I'm not sure on that one, if they can transport paints that have been sent externally, then why can't they do ours? My contact at Royal Mail is on holiday at the moment, but I'll raise that point when he gets back in the New Year.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but this ban affects cosmetics suppliers as well, as things like nail polish fall into the "4 bottles or less" group. No idea who/where you would pitch the petition idea to though...
Quote from: Kiwidave on 20 December 2013, 03:56:31 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but this ban affects cosmetics suppliers as well, as things like nail polish fall into the "4 bottles or less" group. No idea who/where you would pitch the petition idea to though...
There must be loads of UK fashion bloggers that will be most upset by this.
Quote from: Kiwidave on 20 December 2013, 03:56:31 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but this ban affects cosmetics suppliers as well, as things like nail polish fall into the "4 bottles or less" group. No idea who/where you would pitch the petition idea to though...
in the Totty thread ?
:D
I was in the para-military wing of the Tufty club- is that any good?
Quote from: Last Hussar on 20 December 2013, 06:51:10 PM
I was in the para-military wing of the Tufty club- is that any good?
That explains your hairstyle :)
Stop, Look Listen. Kill the bastard
Were they attached to the Waffen Women's Institute?
I wonder what would happen if we got a bunch of stickers with "Whisky" on them in big red letters and re-labelled all the bottles we send ? :D
As for nail varnish, well that was the subject of the last purge by Royal Mail. Supposedly all solvent-based things are already banned, and I mean completely not just a 4-weenie-bottle limit, which is why most retailers have dropped enamel paints.
So any bets on how long before Royal Mail drops the "Royal" and just becomes "The Mail" then domiciles itself in Luxembourg in a nice cozy office next to Amazon and PayPal ? That way they'll be able to avoid paying Corporation Tax or having to worry about pesky things like regulators.....
Quote from: SnM Stuff on 27 December 2013, 06:08:22 PM
I wonder what would happen if we got a bunch of stickers with "Whisky" on them in big red letters and re-labelled all the bottles we send ? :D
As for nail varnish, well that was the subject of the last purge by Royal Mail. Supposedly all solvent-based things are already banned, and I mean completely not just a 4-weenie-bottle limit, which is why most retailers have dropped enamel paints.
So any bets on how long before Royal Mail drops the "Royal" and just becomes "The Mail" then domiciles itself in Luxembourg in a nice cozy office next to Amazon and PayPal ? That way they'll be able to avoid paying Corporation Tax or having to worry about pesky things like regulators.....
You mean as long as we pay THEIR representatives to NEGOTIATE with HMRC how much tax they reluctantly will pay after three reminders?
Or do you mean: "As long as we allow them to do business in this country"
:-\
Just realised I hadn't signed, now rectified the oversight. I'll also get wifey to sign, she does 'proper art' and gets lots of her paint mail order.
Quote from: Techno on 13 December 2013, 08:42:11 PM
But I'm pretty sure that the dear (PAH !) PO would class that in the prohibited list under, Waste, Dirt, Filth or Refuse. ;) :)
How come they bombard me with Junk-Mail then?
That's refuse by any definition :)
Leon and esteemed members of the forum.
No, not a confession. I just thought I'd let you know that I have had a long exchange with Royal Mail - fruitless of course. After an exchange of seven emails they were unable to give a sensible reason for the 'rule', which applies to all acrylic paints, including those in tubes. The logic of 600ml in 4x150ml containers but not a 600ml maximum in a larger number of smaller containers was not answered satisfactorily in spite of asking for an explanation, specifically, twice. It was, essentially, ignored, with what can only be described as wilful obfuscation.
It boils down to an organisation that seems terminally ****** retentive and refuses steadfastly to be confused by facts. It has its rules and that is that, it seems.
Anyway, on the bright side, I ordered four Luiquitex 400ml spray paints recently and the cost of delivery by courier was only a little over £1 more than a parcel of the same weight by Royal Mail. I know 'times is hard', and all that stuff, but it seem little extra when you get reliable delivery within 24 hours of placing an order.
Quote from: John Cook on 23 January 2014, 03:36:36 PM
No, not a confession. I just thought I'd let you know that I have had a long exchange with Royal Mail - fruitless of course. After an exchange of seven emails they were unable to give a sensible reason for the 'rule', which applies to all acrylic paints, including those in tubes. The logic of 600ml in 4x150ml containers but not a 600ml maximum in a larger number of smaller containers was not answered satisfactorily in spite of asking for an explanation, specifically, twice. It was, essentially, ignored, with what can only be described as wilful obfuscation.
It boils down to an organisation that seems terminally ****** retentive and refuses steadfastly to be confused by facts. It has its rules and that is that, it seems.
Thanks for the info, that's about as far as we've got as well. There seems to be a wall which all the questions hit and then bounce back, with no one at the next level of management willing to get involved. There has been some progress by the MP's though, with a couple now receiving letters in reply, stating that there will be a meeting in February to discuss the policy. Hopefully that will bear some good news.
Quote from: John Cook on 23 January 2014, 03:36:36 PM
Anyway, on the bright side, I ordered four Luiquitex 400ml spray paints recently and the cost of delivery by courier was only a little over £1 more than a parcel of the same weight by Royal Mail. I know 'times is hard', and all that stuff, but it seem little extra when you get reliable delivery within 24 hours of placing an order.
Which courier was that? A lot of the cheaper couriers have restrictions as well, so I'm always interested in other options.
The link on Leon's first post is getting there, less than 560 to go.
Have YOU got everyone you know to sign the petition yet?
Leon,
I'm sorry but I don't have the paperwork now.
John
Quote from: John Cook on 26 January 2014, 01:22:36 AM
Leon,
I'm sorry but I don't have the paperwork now.
John
No worries.
8)
Why does this not apply to e-liquid?? There doesnt seem to be the same restriction on that stuff, 10ml bottles and I happily ordered and got (the next day) 7 bottles of this stuff.
Quote from: GordonY on 27 January 2014, 06:20:51 AM
Why does this not apply to e-liquid?? There doesnt seem to be the same restriction on that stuff, 10ml bottles and I happily ordered and got (the next day) 7 bottles of this stuff.
Okay: Leon, I would like 15 bottles of game colour and I'm going to smoke it ;)
That should clear P.O. checkpoints :D
The trouble is with these mega companies they just seem to make nonsensical rules and regulations whenever they feel like it with very little thought. Then make some cock and bull story about why they make these stupid decisions.
take care
andy
i`d like to pledge, but we have no post here in ghana, well we have p.o.boxs
but I have never seen a postie to say piss off to