If I had the money, I would away to France this second! Somewhere in Alsace/Lorraine preferably!

Quote from: FierceKitty on 16 January 2013, 02:30:43 PM
Clay medal to Britain and France for selling out the Czechs in 1938.

And for selling out Poland to the Russians in 1945.   While I understand why we did this it still seems strange as it was for the Poles freedom that we declared war on Germany in the first place

Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 January 2013, 03:49:07 PM

What I really like about your post is the slight hint that many of those chaps dd not necessarily endorse what their respective governments did. Being personally envolved I would like to thank you. My granddad had a training in electrics and could not find a job untill the German Luftwaffe hired him. Just by chance he "missed" Stalingrad whereas my great granddad did not survive the impact of a massive Soviet artillery strike in the house where he was hiding in Ukraine.

Seb.

I'm sorry your Great-Grandad did not make it.  Is your Grandad still alive?

My Ex-wifes uncle was in the Trenches in Normandy - trying to keep "us" out.  His unit tried to surrender to the Canadians and they walked along the top of the trench machine -gunning them. He was towards the end of the trench and dived to the floor.  He than lay under his mates bodies until it was dark and then found an American unit to surrender to.

Most combatants were just doing a job forced on them by economics or conscription. A few on all sides seem to have had a bad attitude and behaved in an inhuman way, but this should not reflect on the rest.

Mark

Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 18 January 2013, 11:31:32 AM
And for selling out Poland to the Russians in 1945.   While I understand why we did this it still seems strange as it was for the Poles freedom that we declared war on Germany in the first place

Well, in 1939, that was the 'administrative trigger' for the declaration of war, but why Germany?  
Poland in 1939 had been invaded by both Germany and Russia.  
Why then did we not declare war on Russia?  After all, with the Molotovâ€"Ribbentrop Pact it would have been an easy sell for Churchill what HATED the Reds.

The real reason we declared war was a complex issue, tied up in our Imperial concerns wasn't it?  A bit like...well...France in Mali...

Didn't we come close to joining up with the Germans?

We certainly did. When our chaps came home from fighting against racial suprematism, they found a lot of politicians had been interned for active pro-Nazi sympathies; these formed our great and good apartheid government shortly after the war. Depressing.

Greetings

There was a some chance of UK neutrality in WW2 (or cessation of hostilities post May 1940) but that was it. 

The force build up in the late 30s was directed against the German threat and, to a much more limited extent Italian threats in the Med/Africa (where the UK relied on French support).

The UK and France did consider intervening to support Finland in the Winter War.

Regards

Edward

I wounder what would have happend if we sided with Germany instead (avoiding any talk of Genaside and such and weather we would or would not have been involved).

But I wounder if we and the Germans would have taken Africa and the Middle East and there wouldn't be the problems there are now?

Would that have got Canada, India and Australia to also join the Uk, Italy and German Allience.

I wounder then if America would have kept out of it all together? Or maybe that would have got them in earlier as they may have thought us to be more of a threat? As the US and we were not so friendly post WWI&II. But taken into account also the friendliness of USA and France.

Would Russia have stayed allied with Germany and the UK?

What about Japan? I know German were allied with Japan but it was only convenience. They may not of needed them if the UK and Russia were involved. Would Germany, UK, Italy a d Russia have walked over Japan and Asia?

And if they did and if they had won, would the USA the get involved?

Who know I suppose, I wouldn't be here that's for sure as my Dads side were Juwish refugees who stayed in the UK.    

It was Roosevelt that sold out Eastern Europe.  He was under the impression (despite Churchill's best efforts) the Stalin was a man of his word.

Getting back to the origins of this thread...

It's it getting hot in Africa? That's not a silly joke either, infact it's very serious.

We have French activitys in Mali and this report http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/algeria/9813651/Algeria-hostage-crisis-drones-and-special-forces-to-hunt-for-Mokhtar-Belmokhtar-one-eyed-mastermind.html about US Speshial forces moving into friendly territory's to strengthen Africa.

With the above and Algeria (I believe Algeria boarders Mali) it looks like quite a powder Keg.

David Cameron has gone on to say (I won't quote as I can't find the exact words) that "they" are the aggressors and he wants to make it clear that this is the case and that it wouldn't end there. Is this a prelude to another Afganistan/Iraq war, but instead of the made up 'WMDs' he appears to be setting in stone that they are the enemy.

With South Africa as 'friendly' and I belive we and Egypt are fairly friendly and Nigiria are often willing to be supportive especially when The UN or USA are involed we could have 'soil' and possible 'drop off points' in every corner if Africa.

Do you think it will blow over or should I get my boots and expect that letter through the post that says I'm needed?

Quote from: Vulpine on 20 January 2013, 12:21:20 AM
Is this a prelude to another Afganistan/Iraq war,

I doubt it, certainly for the UK.  The French are leading this one after the lack of response from the ECOWAS African Nations.  There should be 5000 African troops there already but as i understand it less than 100 have deployed and none of them have desert training.  Hence the French involvement.

QuoteWith South Africa as 'friendly' and I belive we and Egypt are fairly friendly and Nigiria are often willing to be supportive especially when The UN or USA are involed we could have 'soil' and possible 'drop off points' in every corner if Africa.

Yeah but after the US failure in Somalia, they show very little interest in deploying back onto the continent which means the international community is unlikely to go in either.  I don't think you can ignore the Chinese element of that either.  Africa has been flooded with Chinese corporate and government interests, seeking to secure Africa's natural resources, and there are millions of Chinese currently working across Africa.  Since the US national debt is basically owned by China, it makes US intervention in areas of Chinese influence very problematic. 

The French are there, as i understand due to their uranium mining interests in the region. (??) 

Quote
Do you think it will blow over or should I get my boots and expect that letter through the post that says I'm needed?

It won't 'blow over' as long as there are insane Islamic elements trying to drag us back into Medieval religious barbarism.  While we see this as a 'war on terror', or 'regional conflicts', Islam is waging war on the west; or rather dragging us into their Sunni/Shia 'civil war'.  But i wouldn't be too worried about conscription just yet.  

In most cases so far, the west's intervention has been limited, and focussed on securing natural resources and geopolitically regions.  North Africa is neither, which is why the US/Nato were happy to let the 'Arab Spring' pass through Egypt, Libya, and Syria without direct intervention.  In fact, Syria is a more traditional Cold War theatre with Assad being supplied/supported by the Russians and the 'insurgents' (a much misused word, now seemingly synonymous 'rebel') supported by the US.

I'm watching the situations in Mali and Algeria unfold with interest.

Religion poisons everything.

My concern is that there is a lot of oil and other valuable resources such as metals and such. I didn't realise that China had involvement in Africa. I hope this all doesn't affect relations with the west and China.

It's odd, sometimes you think "wouldn't be cool to live in ..." And dream of time travel, but right now we are living in interesting times.

•Technology since I was born has come on leaps and bounds. When i was youg you could hold in your palm a max of 90mins of low quality music, with out a player. Now I'm typing on the same size Tec online, with 2 weeks of music and access to watch TV at any time and I can call, email or text, photograph and satnav.

• Past wars such as the Cold War just ended and the knock on of that such as Russis in Middle east, China and Korea, France and the US in Vietnarm and really WW2 was only three-four generations ago (if you live in Sunderland it's 8 Generations) . Peace in Island and the aftermath of that still going on today, Falklands that could repeat itself

• Present wars, like The war on Terror and the enforcement of democracy on the Middle East

• Future wars, like possibly Africa, Falklands.

• Militery Tech, The AK47 still in regular use, but Nucular Tech now in all Major country's and even Korea. Un-maned plains with pinpoint (supposedly) accuracy. Is this the end if boots on enemy soil?  

• Economic change,  we are living through the times of one of the greatest recessions of recent history, the fall of Greece, Island and possibly
Spain and the flex of Germany who have recently gone on to say that they will bail Spain out as long as (basically) Germany will be incharge of Spain. To owe someone like this gives them total controls giving Germany even more strength in Europe. Also the end of the local butchers and such and the big powers of shops like Tesco, Co-Op, Sains-bo's and the such, even my local shop is a Co-Op "express".

• Exploration, Not all that long since man was in the moon, unmanned craft almost leaving our solar sytem and earth surounded buy thousands of satalights. The Higgs Boson... I don't really understand it but I believe the scientists are right when they say its interesting and will help understand the way the univers works.

• Climate Change, Well it's 6inc of snow outside and my town has been cut of twice by flash floods. Do I think this is a knock on effect of Manon this planet? I don't know, there has been Ice Ages before with Man. I don't think the Wooly Mamaths were over using Spray Depdorants and early man wasnt burning fossil fuels was he? Natural or not, the worlds weather is changing.

• Time on this planet. Well gone are the days of getting to 70 and being dead. Now we go on and on, our body's still here as our legs stop working, our eyes and ears stop giving the brain information, we can't smell anymore and tasting food is a thing if the past. Our hands shake and our brain turns into a mush of mixed messengers and forgot memory's as a nurse wipes the dribble off our chin and  and sticks another nappy round our ass! Woopy! (This is a general look, not all old people are like this, my wife's grate uncle is 75 and could kick my butt and is seeing a few 50ish yr old
Lady's, and yes he is...)

• Religion, over the last 30 years the church pews are more and more empty. As a decorator I'm painting more and more church converthions that the Methodists, Church of Englamd and Rome are letting go of. Islam and Muslum 'coripthion' as they use there followers as troops and terrorists. One of the only rules the major religions agree on is 'shal not kill' come on guys, what you doing? I suppose the answer is its not about religion at all? Maybe this is just the a way of evolving? Once we progress out the caves we need answers, religion might fill the unanswered questions, then the age of science and technology filling this blank questions, perhaps this is just the way of progress and this is growing pains .

Interesting and fantastic times to be here.

(Note while I'm typing this at 13:32 I am still in bed, wifes snoozing nect to me as I am watching Chanel 4s embarrassing body's that I perpously recorded a few nights back. Can't be that interesting in the world outside?)

What strikes me the most is that we have no money to educate and feed people properly in Europe but can spend millions on sending our troops across the globe to "defend" our economic interests.

I believe further wars concerning resources are immanent whereas we do not tackle the real problems of this planet.

You gotta spend money to make money

Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 18 January 2013, 12:00:30 PM
Seb.

I'm sorry your Great-Grandad did not make it.  Is your Grandad still alive?

My Ex-wifes uncle was in the Trenches in Normandy - trying to keep "us" out.  His unit tried to surrender to the Canadians and they walked along the top of the trench machine -gunning them. He was towards the end of the trench and dived to the floor.  He than lay under his mates bodies until it was dark and then found an American unit to surrender to.

Most combatants were just doing a job forced on them by economics or conscription. A few on all sides seem to have had a bad attitude and behaved in an inhuman way, but this should not reflect on the rest.

Mark

Hi Mark

he died long before of cancer I was born


@Vulpine: In economic systems where money can make money without actually "working" something is terribly wrong. Another flaw is that (in Germany) the economy cries for skilled labour BUT is unwilling to either PAY those OR TRAIN them.

I see a problem in the system itself. Few profit from exploiting the many. What is an ordinary frenchman's interest in Mali? I believe it to be very little as long as his country (France) provides him with protection and the means of wellbeing. Such is the duty of the state according to UN, Hobbes, Locke, common sense....