Quote from: Hertsblue on 16 January 2013, 11:20:53 AM
Only after France collapsed.

I don't recall France ever being part of our empire. 

Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 January 2013, 11:55:17 AM

I hope this thread can go btt. Sad it needs a GERMAN to tell you both suck armywise.... 

While I accept that the German army was well equiped, well motivated and brave in both world wars - you still lost.  So I don't think you can say we suck.

In fact I don't think its fair to say any army sucked. The vast majority of individuals involved were brave and resiliant who took on much danger and hardship for their respective countries. The ideologies of thier governments with hindsight may have been wrong, but that does not detract from the bravery of those who served

I will end this with a quote from one of Germanys Air Aces

"I should like an outfit of Spitfires for my squadron."  Adolf Galland

You see, this is why the EU is a bad idea...

Quote from: Just a Few OrcsWhile I accept that the German army was well equiped, well motivated and brave in both world wars - you still lost.

Well...yes...but they did take over most of Europe and then proceed to fight The British Empire, the USA, and Russia* to a standstill for the better part of 5 years.  Credit where it's due old chap.

After the Nazis kicked off i'd say the medals table for  'stopping their little game' goes like this:

GOLD

Russia.  They took the winner's rostrum hands out really.  Early setbacks and problems overcame in the second half where they totally outclassed, outproduced, and outfought the Germans.

SILVER

Britain.  Held up the Germans long enough to get a British and French army off the beaches at Dunkirk.  Gave Jerry six of the best in North Africa and the Middle East.  Kept the Bulldog Spirit going until the Yanks woke up. 

BRONZE**

USA.  Taken completely by surprise at Pearl Harbour two years into a global war.  Amateurs.  Still they had a lot of factories and a lot of men and finally managed to sort themselves out enough to put in an appearance at the end of the second half...just as Ivan was turning the tide on the Eastern Front.

HONOURABLE MENTIONS

France & Poland

They had a go bless 'em, but folded early and headed for the showers.  In fact most of their army came over the Britain to carry on the fight.  It took a while but we got there in the end.




*Ultimately we owe a debt to the Russians for defeating the dark forces of fascism; they beat the Wermacht.  And they suffered for it too.  Out of every three dead in WWII one was Russian.

** This award is under review and in danger of being revoked if they don't stop making dreadful movies about how they 'won the war'.

Clay medal to Britain and France for selling out the Czechs in 1938.

Lud, don't forget Finland.

But what I will point out is all our faults and bonus's,

French, Nepolion was a fine leader, as far as giving up, I don't think it counts, the Germans hudwinked them. And before any one says, "they didn't notice a gap in the wall!" Sorry but they could t build that wall across Belgium. Really France lost to German in WW2 due to the fact that the Germans "cheated" your involed with the support of ex colony's, such as Namm and evidently Africa, that's good of you.

Germans, Very fine force, very disaplined and trained troops and officers, top airforce, top tanks. Butt... Before you start. WW1 WW2 Allies 2 Germany 0... Now, just as they have the cash, they bully the rest of Europe. I'm talking mainly of Spain "if you do as your told we will bail you out" WTF?

America, I suppose I better just agree with you as your the Boss around here yeah? Well not if I was incharge. I'll also point out that early 1900s you had made plans to invade Canada (British) and Britan and your own people told you that it wouldn't end well for you. As far as the war for independence, America didn't win, reason, at the time up until independence all your guys were born of the British empire. However, you have changed since then, your a very proud race and I think that's a very fone thing indeed. Your Tec is top your army is half British (well trained) and half Russian (plenty of you.) . 

Britan, in not missing ourselves, fine army indeed, however at no way have we been the good guys, the British empire was built on genaside, slaves, unfair wars and such.

Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 16 January 2013, 01:05:02 PM
While I accept that the German army was well equiped, well motivated and brave in both world wars - you still lost.  So I don't think you can say we suck.

In fact I don't think its fair to say any army sucked. The vast majority of individuals involved were brave and resiliant who took on much danger and hardship for their respective countries. The ideologies of thier governments with hindsight may have been wrong, but that does not detract from the bravery of those who served

I will end this with a quote from one of Germanys Air Aces

"I should like an outfit of Spitfires for my squadron."  Adolf Galland

I beg to differ. May my words seem harsh at times I believe it got a few minds btt instead of opening a France vs UK match. No national resentiments intended buuuuuuuuuuut...

The win and loss of those events is well documented, as is the fact that whenever both winners (France / Britain) stood alone against the said loosers they got their rears kicked quite well don't you think?
I do not recall any war Britain has won without having help from someone and be it (GERMAN) mercenaries .   
Let's not count unarmed African tribe warriors. Even in the Falklands the French provided intelligence and ECM against those Exocet missiles.

What I really like about your post is the slight hint that many of those chaps dd not necessarily endorse what their respective governments did. Being personally envolved I would like to thank you. My granddad had a training in electrics and could not find a job untill the German Luftwaffe hired him. Just by chance he "missed" Stalingrad whereas my great granddad did not survive the impact of a massive Soviet artillery strike in the house where he was hiding in Ukraine.

The the French intell lead to us winning the Faulklands? I think not.

That was an invashion of British soil and we went over and sorted the invaders out!

Britan beat Napolion in Portugal, Spain and France, with or without allies.

As well as Africa (who do count, just because the Zulus didnt have guns they were numbersome and warlike people), Boar war? We also had India and the middle east and Germany in WW2 in battles that did not include allies. I would go on to say that Britan had Germany without the USA. I suppose we will neaver know but Germany was already starting to faulted due to the fact that they were fighting on two frunts. Although without the US against Japan? Who knows?

Also, Canada, Qubeck

But to underestimate the UK is dumb, since Britan became what is now excepted as 'Britain', it's been a long time since anyone has invaded our island. Unlike Germany and France's boarders that have moved again and again.

Just a small note, let's keep this as a friendly debate, it's easy for this type of discussion to get off track... 

I calmed down...As a pissed of French is an infinite joy to a British.

Cannot understand why only Americans and British use this joke on "us".

Well as I said above, we all have had defeats and we all have our faults and strengths. I like the French and Germans greatly and if I was in charge of Britain I'd always work hand in hand with both of them.

Quote from: Leon on 16 January 2013, 04:27:29 PM
Just a small note, let's keep this as a friendly debate, it's easy for this type of discussion to get off track... 

I'm with Leon. 

QuoteCannot understand why only Americans and British use this joke on "us".

I think us Brits have a dig at our French cousins mainly because we like them. Its like taking the mickey out of your mate down the pub (deep down we are jealous of your climate and your food/wine - my aim is in life is to up sticks to France as soon as my kids hit 18).

Quote from: barbarian on 16 January 2013, 04:45:11 PM
I calmed down...As a pissed of French is an infinite joy to a British.

Cannot understand why only Americans and British use this joke on "us".

No worries, I am German and can joke about the French as well  . All within reason of course.

@Vulpine: The Argentinians had acquired Exocet missiles and sank for example the Sheffield with it. Since that missile is French they offered intell on those missiles (which they deny now) and also "assisted" in ECM-ing on those bastards. The superior - NOT performance of British anti sea skimming missiles defence is quite apparent (Sheffield was particularly designed for that task). It was indeed the french who made a difference or as Admiral "Sandy" said if the Argentinians had gotten one of the carriers I would have ordered the retreat.

@Leon, hence my siding witht he French and offering the Germans as a new target  . But you are of course right and we should cool it a little and most of all be a bit more objective.

Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 16 January 2013, 05:16:41 PM
I think us Brits have a dig at our French cousins mainly because we like them. Its like taking the mickey out of your mate down the pub (deep down we are jealous of your climate and your food/wine - my aim is in life is to up sticks to France as soon as my kids hit 18).

I agree but i'd also say we 'like, envy, and hate them', as they like, envy, and hate us.  We like disliking each other.  We've been at it so long its like two old friends and rivals ribbing each other over a pint as they watch the sun set on their past glories...

I think Shakespeare said it best in Henry V (Act V Scene II)

French King:
Take her, fair son, and from her blood raise up    
Issue to me; that the contending kingdoms
Of France and England, whose very shores look pale
With envy of each other's happiness,
May cease their hatred, and this dear conjunction
Plant neighbourhood and Christian-like accord
In their sweet bosoms, that never war advance
His bleeding sword 'twixt England and fair France.


I work with a Frenchman and we get along really well.  I call him Johnny Frog and he calls me Monsieur le Rosbif ...he's one of the few people in the office i can have a decent chat with that doesn't involve kissball or X-Factor...sometimes i'll even slip in a bit of broken French.  He laughs.

Long may France and England be divided by our similarities I say.     Except during the Six Nations...

Quote from: Luddite on 16 January 2013, 10:58:00 PM
I agree but i'd also say we 'like, envy, and hate them', as they like, envy, and hate us.  We like disliking each other.  We've been at it so long its like two old friends and rivals ribbing each other over a pint as they watch the sun set on their past glories...

I think Shakespeare said it best in Henry V (Act V Scene II)

French King:
Take her, fair son, and from her blood raise up    
Issue to me; that the contending kingdoms
Of France and England, whose very shores look pale
With envy of each other's happiness,
May cease their hatred, and this dear conjunction
Plant neighbourhood and Christian-like accord
In their sweet bosoms, that never war advance
His bleeding sword 'twixt England and fair France.


I work with a Frenchman and we get along really well.  I call him Johnny Frog and he calls me Monsieur le Rosbif ...he's one of the few people in the office i can have a decent chat with that doesn't involve kissball or X-Factor...sometimes i'll even slip in a bit of broken French.  He laughs.

Long may France and England be divided by our similarities I say.     Except during the Six Nations...