Very interesting thread,

I'm now fortunate  that I have reached an age where providing I don't go mad price is not realy an issue except that I don't like being ripped off (I've bought virtually no GW figures).

Once I've decided on a project my criteria for buying figures are do I like the figures and does the manuafcturer have a large enough range to let me field an army without waiting for new releases?

If I don't like the figures I won't buy them (I'm very pick about horses which are generally a lot finer and longer in the body than most ranges) and I won't start a new army if the manufacturer doesn't have a decent range.

I'm not too concerned about delivery times, as I can take delays into account when placing orders and if all else fails chip away at the lead pile.

Quality is probably the most important factor for me, and I am willing to pay a premium for it, although whether that would translate into massively increased revenue for the seller is debatable â€" I have a budget and will spend to that budget, so would rather buy 10 well sculpted and casted figures costing £2.00 each than 20 poorly sculpted and cast figures at £1.00p each, but either way I’m going to spend £20.00.  I’m guessing that many people in these economically challenging times (particularly the married ones) will work in a similar manner.

Speed of delivery is not a huge issue as long as I know how long I’m going to have to wait before hand and it’s not more than about 3 weeks. The cost of delivery is though â€" if I feel I’m being ripped off I’ll cancel the order (Wargames Foundry, I’m looking at you…)

Pictures on the website â€" I would never buy anything unless I’d seen it in the flesh or seen a picture of it. I would never have bought into 10mm in the first place if I hadn’t seen Clibanarium’s pictures of the AWI range on various forums (should that be fora?) If a colour catalogue is expensive to produce, why not offer it as a PDF download, or make a small charge for it at shows? A picture tells a thousand words (to use a cliché) and I genuinely don’t think many gamers know how good Pendraken stuff is â€" some of the pictures I’ve seen on this forum will certainly show them!

I would echo several of comments made above.

Quality first, then quantity and value for my money. 

But really, the webstore needs more pics.  Color ones would be nice, but I'll settle for bit of black wash on bare metal if that is all the company has time for.

Quote from: Leveller Mutineer on 20 January 2012, 10:32:46 AM
Hi Maenoferren

That may not be the company's fault.  they probably do use the courier but, if their courier has no presence where you are, they take it as far as they can and then the courier company put it on Royal Mail to finish the journey. 

LM

still annoying though

For me it's price and quality rapidly followed by completeness of range. I was buying ABs for a project and was happy to pay a bit more for the higher quality but now the price has gone too far and I found good quality figures much cheaper so I've switched.
Regarding Pendraken, although I understand why,there are some ranges (Naps and LoA) that I won't really buy until complete. The LoA range is exceptional but at infantry only I can't get started yet 
Cheers,
Andy

As Pendraken in about 90%+ of my figures spend, I have to wonder what you're about to do Leon...

The things I look for in a wargame company roughly in order.


1 Relatively complete range.  I don't mind getting a few bits from another manufacturer, but I want to be able to get most of it from the same place

2 Good Quality Figures/Models.  Nice casting that are consistent in scale across the range (particularly vehicles). 

3 Good customer service.  This includes keeping to delivery times, or letting me know if there is a delay. The ability to ask a favor to tweak an order on the odd occasion.

4 Price.   I am happy to pay a premium for the above three. I want the manufacturer to still be there when I want more  figures and if paying slightly more so the business is more financially viable then I am happy to do this ( I don't think there are many wargame manufactures that have got rich from selling wargames stuff.)

Personally I think the guys at Pendraken easily meet all of the above requirements.  They are also some of the cheapest 10mm figures around.

Quote from: Last Hussar on 21 January 2012, 10:50:57 AM
As Pendraken in about 90%+ of my figures spend, I have to wonder what you're about to do Leon...

Nothing at all, as I said earlier, this was nothing to do with Pendraken-y stuff, I was just curious about how different the wargames market is to others in what we expect from the people we buy from.

Quote from: Leon on 18 January 2012, 07:42:42 PM
(PS, I know that we need more pics on the website, people in glass houses and all...  )

EEHEHEHEHHEHEH 

For me, it's quality of figures, completeness of range, and service.  I am also one of the lucky few to have reached an age when my hobby outlay does not involve decisions between Brunswickers and breakfast, so price is less important and, as JafO says, I want the manufacturer to still be there when I come back next year. That does not mean I am so easy going as to enjoy being ripped off, but I'll pay a good price for a good product. After all it's cheaper than golf.  But service really matters to me, and that is not measured in days a delivery takes (talking of which Leon, how is that order coming on?) to arrive. It is being willing to talk, treating me like a human being and not the obsessed idiot I am, and trying hard to give me exactly what I want. One of the things I like about the hobby is the opportunity to do business with lots of nice people, on both sides of the Atlantic. But good luck trying to put together a business model!

Mollinary

Quote from: Leon on 21 January 2012, 09:40:01 PM


Nothing at all, as I said earlier, this was nothing to do with Pendraken-y stuff, I was just curious about how different the wargames market is to others in what we expect from the people we buy from.

Well its different Leon, in that its an entirely 'niche luxury' market, that is still, outside of the big high street Goliath, essentially a sort of amateur 'Heath Robinson' sort of affair.

Gentlemen making toys of other gentlemen...

Therefore the typical expectations don't really apply.

If I order the weekly shop from Tesco (or other supermarket), i don't email Tesco's CEO to put in the order, but ask to tweak the number of custard tarts in the pack, and then expect the order to arrive some time in the next 7-10 days depending on when he can get the bread baked...
Its a tedious neccessity, run by a facelss corporation and i want it all done efficiently, impersonally, and with the minimum fuss.  I also want top quality at rock bottom prices.

For my toys, its a much different arrangement.

Most of the suppliers (like Pendraken), are 'chaps like me'.  I'm buying recreationaly toys from people i am likely to know well, and who i know aren't a multinational corporate concern.  I apprecate things like personal service, quality of merchandise, etc.

So, its a very different commercial arrangement than in other walks of life.

Quote from: Chad on 19 January 2012, 10:22:23 AM
I found the earlier comment on rules a little strange. Few if any rules are designed for a single scale and a set normally outlines the changes required to use different scale figures. Even if it doesn't it's an easy thing to do yourself.

I’ve been meaning to get back to this for a while.

Currently most rules seem to be written for 6mm, 15/18mm or 25/28mm. If 10mm is mentioned it tends to be as an alternative to 15mm where you can put one or two more figures on a base.

It seems to me this makes 10mm the poor relation to 15mm and while competitions and rules continue to be run/written as they are it cannot progress further as a scale.

I think the virtues of 10mm are:
•   Quality â€" the latest additions are very nearly on a par detail wise to 15mm so can be painted as very attractive figures in there own right.
•   Mass effect â€" more figures can be fixed to a base in multiple ranks to give a feeling of mass to units.
•   Cost â€" the current cost of buying 15 and 25mm armies is very high while painting speed for me is the biggest restriction for me in 10mm. This is very important for the younger members of the hobby where cost can be paramount.
•   Scale â€" this is an area where 10mm does not but should score. Originally when 15mm came out one of its key qualities was you could have a scaled battlefield twice as large as its bases were half the size of 25mm. This advantage has become eroded with scale creep to 18mm so the scale comparison is now only 2/3s. I.e. 60mm base for 25mm to 40mm base size for 15mm. 10mm rules could use the old 15mm standard and be half the size of 25mm giving and advantage over 15s and 25s in scaled battlefield size and still be able to provide extra figure to satisfy the mass appearance.

Rules designed for 10mm I think should:
•   Take advantage of its scale to give larger scaled battlefields.
•   Allow larger battles to be fought in the same timescales as currently the case with 15/25mm rules. (If you simply use more units they become very long games so you need a different approach)
•   Not have individual figure or base removal as a method of showing unit losses.
•   Allow corps and army sized battles as normal games.

Cheers, Rob

Incidentally GW have now officially completely lost the plot, charging £15-20 for a SINGLE FIGURE (Failcast). 

One figure...



Seriously...that's just insane. 

I can't believe anyone is actually buying at that price. 
Surely little Johnny munchkin's mum & dad have hit the point of 'no dear, put it back on the shelf'?

And the thing about Failcast is it's now unavoidable.  They are only releasing resin versions of some models, even back catalogue stuff...


I seriously hope the rest of the 'big players' aren't planning to follow this route...otherwise we'll be back to Prince August style home casting...

Black Scorpion have moved to resin too...

Absolute fecking nonsense.

(mind you, I used to love casting my Prince August figures when I was 11  )

Quote from: Luddite on 01 March 2012, 10:39:51 AM

I can't believe anyone is actually buying at that price. 
Surely little Johnny munchkin's mum & dad have hit the point of 'no dear, put it back on the shelf'?

Just had a look on the GW site and saw,

QuoteDue to high demand, each Citadel Finecast product is limited to five (5) per customer.

Where are these people?  I've got some sea front property in Birmingham I want to sell.

I don't get this 10mm specific rule thing.

Any set of rules can work for any scale figures. Just amended the distances and base sizes. That's it. Done it loads of times. The mechanics are just the same they don't change.

Some rules use figure removal, if you like those base accordingly. I hate them personally so base accordingly for the type of rules I like.

I am missing something?

Cudders

For me :

1 : Quality and range
2 : Price and service

If post is too high I just avoid.

If service is crap I don't go back.

Cudders

Greetings

"if you like the product, is there a limit to what you'll stand for?"

Absolutely. 

0.  To like the product I usually have to be able to see it first i.e. photos or in the metal or have it recommended by someone I trust.  If it's not too expensive I might take the chance.

1.  Perceived poor value for money can often tip the balance even if the product is good.   So Battlefront is not getting much of my money in 15mm in 2012 while PSC will be. 

2.  Total cost to buy in.  I try to keep to an annual hobby budget which means highly priced items are less likely to be purchased.  Pendraken are really good here as I can build/upgrade forces at a very reasonable price, while cost of forming a League of Augsberg 28mm force. 

3.  Poor service - delays without warning, repeated lack of communication, failing to fix problems etc.  I've been pretty lucky here to date.   

4.  Not liking the trader as an individual.  Wierd I know but I've walked away from a couple of trade stands without buying relatively nice stuff because of this.  It's my hobby and I prefer to spend my money on people I like (or at least am neutral on). 

5.  Lack of ability to get compatible items to complete a force.  It doesn't have to be available immediately but I need to be pretty sure that either the manufacturer will produce it or I can get something compatible somewhere else.  If a manufacturer regularly fails to complete a range with the basics I an unlikely to risk it again.   

Regards

Edward

1) I wont pay over the odds for figures regardless of quality. I'll step the quality down a notch rather than pay excessively from a figure manufacturer who thinks it's a petrol or energy company.

2) I like a complete line but if I can complete an army from two compatible manufacturers at comparable cost, I will.

3) I like to see what I am ordering on line. If there aren't photos I generally wont buy from them. I have waived this rule with Pendraken and Liberation in the past but will generally buy at shows anyway.

4) Delivery times dont worry me as much as I don't buy much on line but if the delivery times stated are adhered to, I don't have a problem.

Cheers

Gerard

I found my Prince August moulds last year, in the back of a cupboard at my mums.