Quote from: Big Insect on 05 August 2022, 10:42:20 AMMine plows are Mine clearance A - so they clear 5cm x 5cm sections in an Initiative move

Hi Mark

Sorry to continue the debate.  The Minefield Clearance para on p68 says that 'mine clearing vehicles' can clear minefields at 5cm x 10cm rate. Doesnt a tank with plough fitted qualify as such a vehicle, rather than sappers on foot?  As I understand it tanks can plough at an average rate of 5kph and with a game turn in CWC2 of 30 mins that equates to 2.5kph in 30 mins, which suggests they should be able to clear more than 5cm in a turn.

If however this is incorrect can I suggest the para on p68 be amended to say '......engineers on foot and tanks with mine ploughs fitted'

Regards
Chris

Quote from: Superscribe on 07 August 2022, 08:09:50 AMHi Mark

Sorry to continue the debate.  The Minefield Clearance para on p68 says that 'mine clearing vehicles' can clear minefields at 5cm x 10cm rate. Doesnt a tank with plough fitted qualify as such a vehicle, rather than sappers on foot?  As I understand it tanks can plough at an average rate of 5kph and with a game turn in CWC2 of 30 mins that equates to 2.5kph in 30 mins, which suggests they should be able to clear more than 5cm in a turn.

If however this is incorrect can I suggest the para on p68 be amended to say '......engineers on foot and tanks with mine ploughs fitted'

Regards
Chris

The rules are that mine-clearance vehicles (unless they are specialist units that use things like rocket assisted clearance) clear mines at 5cm x 5cm per initiative action Chris.

As stated earlier (above) some of the more recent list versions & newer lists have the option to buy MBTs with mine-plows/flails in the Engineering section, with the 5cm x 5cm Mineclearer A, designation.

I've deliberately kept the rules for Mineclearance as simple as possible - just 2 types.
The 5cm x 5cm designation for MBTs with mine-ploughs etc. is, in my view, adequate to reflect how they worked in practice and what works best in a game play context.

Thanks
Mark

Quote from: Big Insect on 07 August 2022, 09:22:53 PMThe rules are that mine-clearance vehicles (unless they are specialist units that use things like rocket assisted clearance) clear mines at 5cm x 5cm per initiative action Chris.

As stated earlier (above) some of the more recent list versions & newer lists have the option to buy MBTs with mine-plows/flails in the Engineering section, with the 5cm x 5cm Mineclearer A, designation.

I've deliberately kept the rules for Mineclearance as simple as possible - just 2 types.
The 5cm x 5cm designation for MBTs with mine-ploughs etc. is, in my view, adequate to reflect how they worked in practice and what works best in a game play context.

Hi Mark
No prob - many thanks
Rgds
Chris

Hi Mark

This may have been covered previously but in case it hasn't ..... on p43 the 7th para talks about Close Assault by IFV without dismounting its passengers, and to use its own CA value and +1 for its passengers in support (3 + 1). However table on p45 shows IFV with mounted infantry has CA of 6. Which is correct?

Rgds

Chris

Chris - we played as the 2nd. The other thing that is unclear is IFV with mounted infantry assaulting AFV's. According to current rules they can, but Mark intended they couldn't.

The basic principle of the rules is that armour (of any sort) CANNOT assault enemy armour - that includes half-tracks, APCs, Armoured Cars, IFVs and MBTs, even armoured lorries (of which there are a few about in the lists).
Any vehicle that has a Saving throw is (usually) classified as being a 'Hard/Armoured' target.

An IFV gets a higher factor in assault as it is usually armed with a better weapon - than say an APC, half-track etc. And it's weapons are specifically designed to fight in assault - unlike an MBT.

An IFV can fight in Assault in 4 ways:

1). using its own factors - (against enemy Infantry in the open for example) - without any Infantry supporting it (they might already have been KO'd for example) and when doing so it has a factor of +3

2). with its passenger infantry dismounted, but in support and the IFV making the assault (+3 for the IFV and +1 for the supporting passenger infantry) NB: it can receive support from other friendly units not otherwise engaged in assault as well

3). in support of its own infantry - that have dismounted to fight ahead of it in an assault (usually against enemy infantry in cover) - here it adds its support (+1) to the Infantry assault factor (+4)

4). with its infantry passengers mounted - when it fights with an assault factor of +6

The wording on Page 52 may be confused/confusing. But the above is how it should work.
Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark

Can you confirm if I have attack stats correct for British Abbot 105mm and Soviet 2S1 122mmm:

On table Direct Fire AP4/100 AT4/100H (as table on p52)
On table Indirect Fire AP3/100 AT3/100 (as listed in Brit & Soviet PDFs) No H
Off table Indirect Fire AP3 AT3 (based on stats of equivalent arty stats in PDFs)

Regards

Chris

Quote from: Superscribe on 11 September 2022, 05:15:06 PMHi Mark

Can you confirm if I have attack stats correct for British Abbot 105mm and Soviet 2S1 122mmm:

On table Direct Fire AP4/100 AT4/100H (as table on p52)
On table Indirect Fire AP3/100 AT3/100 (as listed in Brit & Soviet PDFs) No H
Off table Indirect Fire AP3 AT3 (based on stats of equivalent arty stats in PDFs)

Abbots are a Factor 3 across the board.

1). on-table = AP-3/100 AT-3/100H
2). off-table = AP-3 AT-3

Broadly the on-table and off-table numbers of dice should be the same and the 100cm range is standard for most (all) on-table equivalents.

The 122mm should all be:
1). on-table = AP-4/100 AT-4/100H
2). off-table = AP-4 AT-4

The gun calibres are 'lumped' into broad categories - as otherwise you start to get into the challenges around artillery ammunition, fire-doctrine, etc. etc. etc.

Cheers
Mark

Regards

Chris

Hi Mark
I did think this was the case but table on p52 seems to contradict what you said about Abbot. It lists 100-122mm as 4/100H. Abbot is 105mm so is it 3/100 as you posted above or 4/100 as table on p52?
Rgds Chris

Quote from: Superscribe on 12 September 2022, 08:39:22 AMHi Mark
I did think this was the case but table on p52 seems to contradict what you said about Abbot. It lists 100-122mm as 4/100H. Abbot is 105mm so is it 3/100 as you posted above or 4/100 as table on p52?
Rgds Chris

Hi Chris - this is m,e answering without access to the rules - if the rules state 100-122mm is 4/100-4/100H then that is the correct figure and the Soviet 122m is also 4/100 - 4/100H 

Hi Mark

OK, so if Abbot is 4/100 and 4/100H on-table, should off-table still be a 3 or adjusted to a 4?
They cant really go to a 4 for off-table, as M109 155mm are 4s and other British 105s are 3s.

The table on p52 specifically says its for On-table Direct Fire i.e. firing over open sights at a target in its LOS. Could it be that this table is correct for direct fire and stats of 3/100 still apply to on-table indirect fire, then that would match the existing 3 for off-table Abbots?

Rgds

Chris

Quote from: Superscribe on 14 September 2022, 03:31:44 PMHi Mark

OK, so if Abbot is 4/100 and 4/100H on-table, should off-table still be a 3 or adjusted to a 4?
They cant really go to a 4 for off-table, as M109 155mm are 4s and other British 105s are 3s.

The table on p52 specifically says its for On-table Direct Fire i.e. firing over open sights at a target in its LOS. Could it be that this table is correct for direct fire and stats of 3/100 still apply to on-table indirect fire, then that would match the existing 3 for off-table Abbots?

Rgds

Chris

It's entirely up to you Chris - but the principle is that if on-table is 3/100 - then the off-table is also 3.
That is the way the rules are designed, and those are the official bandings. It is about keeping things simple to remember.
Somebody will no-doubt be able to argue that not all 105mm guns are equal (for example) 
Cheers
 

Hi Mark

Excellent game last weekend and  many thanks for coming along. You are always welcome to join us for any of our future games.

For our next game later this month we plan to do the Extraction Scenario 1:1 Soviet MR Pl trying to extract, hunted down by a British Mech Combat Team, with 4x Hip available for extraction. A couple of thoughts when I was looking at force composition:

• FV432 has AP 1/50 and the FV432 with Peake turret has 2/50, similar to other APCs.  As these are transports for 2 Inf teams can they still fire if both teams have debussed? 
• Also the scenario defender major objective states 'extracting at least 50% of remaining defending units off-table" If for example they start with 16 units and by GT5 they are down to 10 units left, do they only need to extract 5 units to achieve their major objective?

Regards
Chris

QuoteHi Mark

Excellent game last weekend and  many thanks for coming along. You are always welcome to join us for any of our future games.

> many thanks Chris - great game and good to see a Soviet player doing so well in an attacking scenario. That flanking helicopter strike would have got John a 'Hero of the Soviet Union' medal for sure.

For our next game later this month we plan to do the Extraction Scenario 1:1 Soviet MR Pl trying to extract, hunted down by a British Mech Combat Team, with 4x Hip available for extraction. A couple of thoughts when I was looking at force composition:

• FV432 has AP 1/50 and the FV432 with Peake turret has 2/50, similar to other APCs.  As these are transports for 2 Inf teams can they still fire if both teams have debussed? 

> Yes, that is correct

• Also the scenario defender major objective states 'extracting at least 50% of remaining defending units off-table" If for example they start with 16 units and by GT5 they are down to 10 units left, do they only need to extract 5 units to achieve their major objective?

> I don't have my rules with me - let me check & confirm
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Regards
Chris

• Also the scenario defender major objective states 'extracting at least 50% of remaining defending units off-table" If for example they start with 16 units and by GT5 they are down to 10 units left, do they only need to extract 5 units to achieve their major objective?

[/quote]

> yes, that is correct Chris - I am assuming that your attackers in this scenario are the British (as the defender cannot use any vehicles, other than the helicopters) 

Hi Mark

Thank you for clarifying - scenario will be Soviet MR Pl trying to extract hunted down by a British Mech Combat Team

Regards

Chris

QuoteHi Mark

Thank you for clarifying - scenario will be Soviet MR Pl trying to extract hunted down by a British Mech Combat Team

Regards

Chris

>The scenario requires the British (the Defender) to only consist of:
Command units (which could include a Sniper), Recce units (on foot), Infantry units (on foot) & Infantry Support units (on foot) + the helicopters required. No other off-table assets for either side, and no Vehicles for the Defender.

This has been played many times in play-test and by others as a fun game. It is actually tough for both sides, even when you are down to 2 units left on the defenders side and you need to try & just get 1 off-table for a Major victory.
It is a fun game for small forces, although it would be interesting to play it with larger ones.

I shall await the game report & outcome with great interest.
Good luck

Hi Mark
The Soviets will be the defenders (MR Pl with only foot-based units) - the hunter force will be a British Mech CT with vehicles.

I have play tested at home - it is a fun game and it can be quite challenging for both sides

Will let you know how we get on
Chris

We have also played it where the Soviets are a team of Spetznats and that can be very interesting indeed.

Sounds good Chris.

Have decided to go with VDV and all teams will be elite, at extra 5pts cost per support team. Will let you know how it goes on 23rd. C