Field defences p84.  AFV Pits and Vehicle Scrapes seem to give the same benefits to AFVs, so why spend the additional 5 points for a pit?  Or is there some explanatory text missing, which would make the difference between these types of defences much clearer?

Quote from: Superscribe on 30 July 2022, 07:59:30 PMArtillery Barrage p54 2nd para states 'Then reduce the number of unsaved hits by 50% rolling for saves on the remaining hits as normal."  If hits are reduced by 50% before saves are thrown then they cant be 'unsaved ' hits!

> I can see your point - the removal of the word 'unsaved' makes things clearer. The intention is that the number of hits are reduced by 50% ahead of any saves thrown being attempted.

Should you reduce the number of hits by 50% before saves are thrown, or should saves be thrown first then reduce unsaved hits by 50%?

I suggest this rule needs come clarification

Thoughts above (in-line) as usual Chris - thanks

Quote from: Superscribe on 30 July 2022, 08:02:51 PMField defences p84.  AFV Pits and Vehicle Scrapes seem to give the same benefits to AFVs, so why spend the additional 5 points for a pit?  Or is there some explanatory text missing, which would make the difference between these types of defences much clearer?

Let me double-check Chris & I'll get back to you on that one 

Quote from: sultanbev on 28 July 2022, 11:55:56 PMI would treat AVLB as being able to lay a bridge in a single successful activation. As long as they are touching the obstacle being crossed, which shouldn't be more than a model length wide. So in a good run of activations, the AVLB could drive up to the stream, then lay the bridge, then drive across it in 3 activations all in one turn.

A 5cm river is 100m, so a big no-no, but if the scenario/map involves streams, blown bridges or cratered roads, then an AVLB would be able to cross it quickly in relative terms.

Engineers on foot building bridges, would, as stated, be out of the remit of a normal battle. "Overnight" seems to be the normal historical build time of a 100m+ wide pontoon bridge.

The truck mobile ribbon bridges and floating ferry arrangements still took a while to build, they just get into the water a lot quicker. In longer games they might be set up in sufficient time that CWC would need rules for them. Although the set up times might be quicker than a company of sappers unloading pontoons from horse-drawn wagons, that speed might not be any use if the crossing point hasn't been checked out first by engineer recce units.

Just looking at my Janes Logistics 1989, there appears some consistency.
Light pontoon bridges that can only allow infantry and motorcycles take half an hour to set up, up to 100m length
As examples of others:
Romanian 40t 142m pontoon takes 1 hour
Romanian 60t 80m pontoon takes 1.5 hours
Swiss 50t 100m pontoon takes 3 hours with 132 men, ie a company's worth
Swiss 30t 14m pontoon takes 1.5 hours with 33 men, ie a platoon's worth
Swiss 16t 10m pontoon takes 1.5 hours with 33 men
Russian 4t 88m pontoon takes 50 mins
Russian 8t 64m pontoon takes 50 mins
Russian 40t 64m pontoon takes 60 mins with 105 men, ie a company's worth
Russan 24t 88m pontoon takes 55 mins with 105 men
Russian PMP 60t 227m pontoon takes 30 mins with 82 men
Russian PMP 20t 389m pontoon takes 50 mins with 82 men
{THe PMP is an exceptional piece of kit)
Russian and Egyptian 1973 TPP pontoon 16t 500m takes 2.5 hours with 384 men
TPP 50t 265m pontoon takes 2 hours with 384 men
TPP 70t 205m pontoon takes 3 hours with 384 men
US aluminium floating footbridge 15 mins + 1 min per 4.5m of length
US Ribbon bridge 6.7m per minute

Interesting stuff Mark - helpful - thank you.

Quote from: Superscribe on 30 July 2022, 08:02:51 PMField defences p84.  AFV Pits and Vehicle Scrapes seem to give the same benefits to AFVs, so why spend the additional 5 points for a pit?  Or is there some explanatory text missing, which would make the difference between these types of defences much clearer?

Bit of checking back at my 'thinking' on this - AFV Pits are permeant (so can be reoccupied) - Vehicle scrapes are not able to be reoccupied. I'll clarify that in the errata Chris.

Quote from: Big Insect on 01 August 2022, 08:22:53 AMBit of checking back at my 'thinking' on this - AFV Pits are permeant (so can be reoccupied) - Vehicle scrapes are not able to be reoccupied.

Hi Mark. That would make sense, which means you could have scrapes as forward positions, which are given up as the enemy advances, and move back to alternative positions which are AFV pits. rgds Chris

That was the idea Chris.
Cheers
Mark

Is there a limit to where an Ambush can be located as the rules seem not to indicate any restrictions.  For example in an Attack/Defence scenario can the Attacked plan an Ambush within the Defence deployment area? 
If this is not permitted then something needs to be added to the rules to indicate ambush location limitations

Quote from: Superscribe on 03 August 2022, 11:17:22 PMIs there a limit to where an Ambush can be located as the rules seem not to indicate any restrictions.  For example in an Attack/Defence scenario can the Attacked plan an Ambush within the Defence deployment area? 
If this is not permitted then something needs to be added to the rules to indicate ambush location limitations

There are no restriction other than those relating to proximity and cover (see page 75).

Hi Mark

I think the recce spotting example on p32 is misleading as spotting of concealed troops is a reconnoitre action, for which you need to score according to distance from target area and nothing else i.e. as described in Reconnoitre rule 2nd para on p32 and NOT the factors they have been used in the example.

Regards

Chris

If you have mine ploughs fitted to lead tanks in say a Soviet Tank Bn, what happens when they enter a marked or hidden minefield? Having stopped at the edge as per the rules on p68, can they on a successful command throw, just carry on through the minefield clearing a 5cm wide route for other tanks to follow? What speed should they move through the minefield for each successful command throw? Full move, half move or 5cm/successful command throw?

I think there needs to be some clarification in the rules about use of mine ploughs, because it would be a little unrealistic for them to do what unsuppressed combat engineers have to do, namely only clear mines during the initiative phase, which would mean waiting until the next game turn before they can start using their ploughs....

Comments?

Mine plows are Mine clearance A - so they clear 5cm x 5cm sections in an Initiative move. Once they have made that move they stop moving but can be ordered to fire or retreat with a commanded order. (NB: you can of course Order them to move forward into minefield as a Commanded order, but as they are moving faster than the mine plow can operate effectively, they will take potential casualties from the minefield).

They cost 5pts to add to an AFV
1/3rd of the MBTs in a Soviet/Warsaw Pact Tank battalion would usually have them added (typically)

Some of the later lists have them specified in the Engineering sections - other earlier lists will be updated to include them.

Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark. Many thanks for update regarding use of ploughs; also noted  numbers in Soviet Tank Bn.
Regards Chris

Hi Mark

I am thinking of planning an all day game river assault scenario next month, with a wide river (30cm wide) but have a few questions as I cant find the answers in the rules (if the info is missing then it may need to be added to the rules and to unit stats tables).

What speed do the following move across a river:

- vehicles with the amphibious special ability, such as BMPs/BRDMs?
- assault boats  (and assume they are Transport (1) - limited to infantry or engineer unit)?
- ferries carrying vehicles?
- snorkelling tanks?

It is understood that all targets in water are classed as being in the open, but does the water affect the enemy's chance to hit targets while crossing water?

If the Bridgelayer special ability is given to a Sapper unit (at cost of 5pts, as page 91) they then have the ability to lay 5cm of bridge per Initiative Phase.  If 3x bridgelaying sapper units are used to build one pontoon bridge can they combine their efforts and build the bridge at a revised rate of 3 x 5cm = 15cm/Initiative Phase?

Regards

Chris

I'll leave the adjudication on how bridgelaying sappers are handled in game to Big Insect but I suspect in the real world there would be a law of diminishing returns in doing that.

In my time as a project manager I have had to explain to a number of bosses that just because one woman can produce a baby in nine months it doesn't follow that nine women can produce one in a month.