1870 Prussian flags - colorful or black and white?

Started by Brotherdargon, 25 August 2016, 07:33:20 AM

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Brotherdargon

I was wondering. Would it be correct if I used the PRussians flags from Pendraken sheet?
I have checked Osprey and warflag. It seems that line infantry used only black flags with white wedges. The colours will change the mood of otherwise very dark-coloured army (especially Brunswickers, with black on black ob black :) ).

Duke Speedy of Leighton

The elder statesmen of Franco-Prussian knowledge will be along later (morning Cameronian, Mollinary and Le Manchu, you all alright?) but if you ask Leon there is a sheet of Prussian flags specially developed for Pendraken figures, which comes with a handy list of which unit had which flag.
The Brunswickers still carried their Waterloo flags, yellow and blue, I hand painted mine for them. Will dig out a photo for you. :) If you really want a challenge, they also still carried their 'Jingling Johnny', a series of bells on a t-shaped pole, it's preserved in a museum to this day!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Duke Speedy of Leighton

You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Brotherdargon

1. I have the Prussian flag sheet, hence the question. :)
2. Brunswickers will be made soon, I will post some photos on weekend.

Duke Speedy of Leighton

There is one with many different coloured flags too. The majority of Prussian units were black and white, but occasionally you get one which has s very different (8th infantry springs to mind)!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

mollinary

OK, here goes!  This is not a simple question, but then little ever is! First, all three battalions of infantry regiments 13-88 carried variations on the black and white flags you describe, apart from 1/33 and 1,2/34 which had the black and white reversed. If you want a bit of colour you want to look at the Hessen-Darmstadt regiments, the Saxon Regiments, and the small duchies IR89-90(Mecklenburg), 91 (Oldenburg), 92(Brunswick), 93(Anhalt), 94(Saxe-Weimar), 95(Thuringian States), and 96(Saxe-Altenburg, Reuss, and Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt). Many of these regiments flags are also on Pendraken sheets.  The first 12 regiments were grenadiers and,  many, if not most, of their flags were in tatters or totally eroded by 1870, they have the more colourful ones included in the current Pendraken sheet of which you speak.  The guard had a variety of flag types, from plain white, through to the black and white styles used by the rest of the infantry and, in a couple of the Guard Grenadier regiments, the remains of old Napoleonic flags.  As well as Pendraken (who I think may be about to add a new sheet of Prussian flags (Leon?)). Baccus make a range of 6mm flags which fit very well on 10mm figures flagpoles. I have used many of them myself!

Hope this is a start. Good luck!

Mollinary
2021 Painting Competition - 1 x Winner!
2022 Painting Competition - 2 x Runner-Up!

Leman




Some Prussians with a coloured flag (blue and yellow), white, and black and white. Stopped being an "only this regiment may appear in this battle" fascist years ago. If it looks good I just use it, and if a wargame nerd moans I just contemptuously use bad language. It's only a game after all.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

Brotherdargon

Ok. So X Corps will be a rainbow Corps. Brunswickers with their flag and Pendraken flags for each regiment. :)
Other Corps (Corpses ??) will be black/white.

Duke Speedy of Leighton

You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Brotherdargon

Is there any source that describes flags regiment by regiment? I have the numbers

mollinary

Give me the numbers and I'll find them for you.

Mollinary
2021 Painting Competition - 1 x Winner!
2022 Painting Competition - 2 x Runner-Up!

Brotherdargon

25 August 2016, 03:26:58 PM #11 Last Edit: 25 August 2016, 03:34:22 PM by Brotherdargon
After Wikipedia Order of battle for FPW war: Nos: 78, 91 (Oldenburg), 16, 57, 56, 79, 17
Brunswick Regiment (No. 92) - I have them.
I does not matter so much (units will be used in other battles as other regiments), but I would like to have one Corps correctly done. :)

mollinary

25 August 2016, 03:49:20 PM #12 Last Edit: 25 August 2016, 04:55:40 PM by mollinary
Sorry BD, but it is not exactly a colourful corps, if you go for the correct flags. iR16 and 17 both have the first issue of the standard black and white flags. The central area with the eagle is orange, and all the decoration (crowns, wreaths, monograms) are in gold. IRs 56,57 and 78,79 all have the later variant with the monograms and crowns gold, and the wreaths mixed silver and green (look more silver than green). You already have the three Brunswick flags used in 1870, the Duke's and Battalion' flags of the 1st Line Battalion,  and the Duke's flag of the 3rd Line Battalion. That just leaves Oldenburg IR91 who carried one flag from 1822 and 2 from 1837.  These were identical on both sides, the only difference between the 22 and 37 models were the monograms, which were PFL in 1822 and PFA IN 1837. Not exactly a problem in this scale!  The field colour was cornflower blue, and they all had a gold fringe on the edges not attached to the pole. In the centre of the flag was a crowned "Wappenmantel" on which the ducal arms were displayed. These are very complicated. If you send me a message I can send you a black and white photo of the flag, and describe the colours of the individual sections.

Mollinary
2021 Painting Competition - 1 x Winner!
2022 Painting Competition - 2 x Runner-Up!

Duke Speedy of Leighton

We've done the Oldenberger flag discussion before
The Oldenburg crest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wappen_Deutsches_Reich_-_Grossherzogtum_Oldenburg.png
If you copy, paste and resize it from here or photo bucket.
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6071.30.html

And here is the version I made,
Quote from: mad lemmey on 29 September 2012, 04:30:09 PM
An hour of pratting about, this is as far as i have got with the flag, anyone want to take it further...  :P


Shrunk to .9cm high, it looks pretty decent, honest!   ;D >:(


You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Brotherdargon

Thanks for the link to the discussion. I would still go 1 shade of blue darker than Take 3 of the flag, but do not want to start the discussion on cornflower blue again. :)