Hi all,

Having recently acquired a copy of BKC I have a rules query:

The points cost for troops; is that for a single stand of infantry / single vehicle?

Cheers in advance

it is indeed

Yep, the points are for one tank, infantry stand etc.

Quote from: Nosher on 26 February 2015, 08:24:19 PM
it is indeed

Thanks Nosher and Steve

Could you explain this then?

Russian Early Eastern list states I can have a max of 9 T34 lates @ 140 points each per 1000 points of army.

9 x 140 = 1260!!!

This doesn't make sense

I assume it's because you can only have 9 medium tanks of any type in that list but yes, there are some limits in the lists that you can't actually get to!

Thanks Ithoriel, so long as that's the case it means I'm not reading it incorrectly 

I gave up on the lists and army builder a long time ago and use historical orbats.

I only ever use army lists/bgb for pick up and play games

Quote from: Nosher on 27 February 2015, 07:53:29 AM
I gave up on the lists and army builder a long time ago and use historical orbats.

I only ever use army lists/bgb for pick up and play games

Yeah, I'm not that listy but as a newby to WW2 I have no idea what balance would look like; NONE!

So, while I'm trying to create my force lists I need to know if it's stupid to have 6 T34s in a 1000 point battle for example.

There are quite a few 'errors' like this throughout the lists. I tend to use them as a guide, with the points broadly balancing things out. Experience helps a lot. Early on Pete Jones had sample lists for all theatres that were really useful, so maybe these could be brought back?

As with others, using historical OOB helps a lot, plus I found Mark Bevis' Micromark lists a real boon early on. Now I've played so much I like to thing I have a good idea what makes for a good and balanced force (famous last words ).

If you have any other questions, just ask.

Good info on this site :

https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BGMR_WWII/info

Don't worry - I'll let you in.

IanS

Quote from: Steve J on 27 February 2015, 08:12:20 AM
As with others, using historical OOB helps a lot, plus I found Mark Bevis' Micromark lists a real boon early on. Now I've played so much I like to thing I have a good idea what makes for a good and balanced force (famous last words ).

If you have any other questions, just ask.

Much appreciated Steve.   

Everyone keeps mentioning OOBs but I really just want a moderately realistic representative force

Quote from: ianrs54 on 27 February 2015, 08:40:09 AM
Good info on this site :

https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BGMR_WWII/info

Don't worry - I'll let you in.

IanS

Done and done; thanks Ian

I usually look at the max of any "arms".

Example : 9 medium tanks, 3 heavy tanks, 3 AT...

Then I choose a type that fit in my "theater"
ex: T34/76 obr 43, KV-85, pak 40...

Then I "buy" the max. for 1000.

A typical force for my soviet mid :

-9 Rifle
-3 MG
-3 mortars
-2 ATG

-9  Smg (generally on tanks)
-9 T-34
-3 KV-85

-1 heavy mortar

-some scouts
-some command

I lack AT capability.

Quote from: barbarian on 03 March 2015, 07:36:49 PM
I usually look at the max of any "arms".

Example : 9 medium tanks, 3 heavy tanks, 3 AT...

Then I choose a type that fit in my "theater"
ex: T34/76 obr 43, KV-85, pak 40...

Then I "buy" the max. for 1000.

A typical force for my soviet mid :

-9 Rifle
-3 MG
-3 mortars
-2 ATG

-9  Smg (generally on tanks)
-9 T-34
-3 KV-85

-1 heavy mortar

-some scouts
-some command

I lack AT capability.

That's really useful, thanks Barbarian.  I'm at the point of working out two force,  putting in an order and then throwing dice at them to see what happens.  I've also decided to buy the stuff I like and want to paint.

I was initially going for 1000 points per side but soon realised the forces would be tiny 

Hey getagrip, which army/force/period/frontier are you willing to build?

Quote from: jchaos79 on 03 March 2015, 08:00:51 PM
Hey getagrip, which army/force/period/frontier are you willing to build?

Starting off with mid Eastern front German / Russian.

Can anyone explain what the difference is (rules wise) between a Pak 40 as support and the same as an anti tank unit?

Its a while since I did BKC lists.

But as far as I remember it's just to do with selecting the forces - there are no in game differences. There are certain limits for support and certain for AT. Some units fall into both categories.

The limits in BKC seem a bit odd at first, but actually work quite well at representing the actual TOE of the various forces within a points framework.

Quote from: fred    12df on 03 March 2015, 08:17:18 PM
Its a while since I did BKC lists.

But as far as I remember it's just to do with selecting the forces - there are no in game differences. There are certain limits for support and certain for AT. Some units fall into both categories.

The limits in BKC seem a bit odd at first, but actually work quite well at representing the actual TOE of the various forces within a points framework.

They're beyond odd, I don't get it 

Quote from: getagrip on 03 March 2015, 08:13:34 PM
Starting off with mid Eastern front German / Russian.

Can anyone explain what the difference is (rules wise) between a Pak 40 as support and the same as an anti tank unit?

It reflects the way the German army actually deployed the guns. Some allocated to infantry units and some as separate units in their own right.

As fred says, once you get used to the way they work they do tend to push you to use historical(-ish) forces.

I'm beginning to get the feeling BKC is not as complicated as you imagine it is

Quote from: Ithoriel on 03 March 2015, 08:25:54 PM
It reflects the way the German army actually deployed the guns. Some allocated to infantry units and some as separate units in their own right.

As fred says, once you get used to the way they work they do tend to push you to use historical(-ish) forces.

I'm beginning to get the feeling BKC is not as complicated as you imagine it is

I'm okay with that but "in game" whatdifference does it make?

Does support have to stay with the infantry and,  if not,  why not?

And, if the support at AT can go where it wishes,  why not just incorporate it into AT rather than a separate category?

Also,  you can never actually reach some of the maximum troop numbers per 1000 points.

No, not confusing at all! 

Support are meant to play with the infantry BUT in the game, the German doctrine allows you to form "command groups" on the go, so you don't need to allocate command units to specific units.

If I can give you an advice about mid russians, they are weak due to poor command. You need off table arty, but plan the fire missions, as the poor command of the scouts won't call anything.