Hi all,

I know there is a Beastman army available in the "trial rules" but I don't really like them.  

So...decided to do my own.  

I wanted a horde feel of pure aggression.  

The list is VERY infantry heavy but tough.  Only a few light cavalry so wouldn't really recommend this list for tournament style games.

Let me know what you think.  

Looks interesting....will have to chuck some dice at it & see how it plays 

Thanks for posting 

Quote from: nikharwood on 02 February 2015, 03:00:39 PM
Looks interesting....will have to chuck some dice at it & see how it plays 

Cheers Nik; would love to know how that goes.

What do you think of the Doombull special rule?  Included it to give some punch and add a bit of colour.

As Nik says, really needs played to see how it works but first impressions are:

- For consistency with other armies I'd make chariots 5+ save

- I'd keep Beastmen to the standard 4 units per brigade

- The Doombull breaks the basic armylist conventions to no great advantage that I can see. Either field him as a standard hero or turn him into a unit upgrade like a mount or a magic item.

Overall it looks like a good, solid armylist. Have fun!

Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 February 2015, 03:25:46 PM

- For consistency with other armies I'd make chariots 5+ save

- I'd keep Beastmen to the standard 4 units per brigade

- The Doombull breaks the basic armylist conventions to no great advantage that I can see. Either field him as a standard hero or turn him into a unit upgrade like a mount or a magic item.

Overall it looks like a good, solid armylist. Have fun!

Thanks Ithoriel:

Goblin chariots save at 6+ and I wanted aggression over armour.

Wanted the beastmen in more of a horde but not quite as large as Skaven.

The Doombull creates a horde that punches above it's weight but is vulnerable.

Will see how it plays 

It's your armylist so don't let me influence you unduly, informed suggestions at best.

On the chariots, my thinking was that goblin chariots are basically kid's go-carts, crewed by weedy goblins and pulled by a couple of scruffy Alsatians whereas Beastman chariots are solid lumps of wood crewed by hulking monsters you wouldn't want to meet on a dark night pulled by beasts that will knock you down and tap dance on your chest.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 February 2015, 03:48:06 PM
It's your armylist so don't let me influence you unduly, informed suggestions at best.

On the chariots, my thinking was that goblin chariots are basically kid's go-carts, crewed by weedy goblins and pulled by a couple of scruffy Alsatians whereas Beastman chariots are solid lumps of wood crewed by hulking monsters you wouldn't want to meet on a dark night pulled by beasts that will knock you down and tap dance on your chest.

  Beautifully put.

I wanted them to have Att 4+ but with that level of attack 5+ save made them into Centurions!

Looks really interesting. Maybe in my perosnal taste I would drop trolls and ogres for this army style.

I see the 6units brigade like the special of the army. But any drawback?

You know the armies use to have a characteristic improvement and a drawback that compensate.

Anyway seems very dangerous and interesting indeed list.  Thanks for sharing

Quote from: jchaos79 on 02 February 2015, 07:10:22 PM

I see the 6units brigade like the special of the army. But any drawback?

You know the armies use to have a characteristic improvement and a drawback that compensate.

Thanks Chaos 

I think the lack of any cavalry is a massive drawback.  I'm play-testing it in a couple of weeks so we'll see how it goes   

Between the chariots and actual cavalry you can field five mounted per 1000pts - that's not exactly lacking...

Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 10:03:15 AM
Between the chariots and actual cavalry you can field five mounted per 1000pts - that's not exactly lacking...

Take your point but it is compared to armies with unlimited cavalry, which, if I were facing this army (and I am in to weeks) I would take loads of cavalry; you aint going to out infantry them.

Also, I don't think of chariots as cavalry more as unique shock troops and, for the points, they're really brittle

Compare them to anyone except Bretonnians then - are they low in cavalry based number of units to anyone else?

Quote from: getagrip on 05 February 2015, 10:37:49 AM
Take your point but it is compared to armies with unlimited cavalry, which, if I were facing this army (and I am in to weeks) I would take loads of cavalry; you aint going to out infantry them.

Also, I don't think of chariots as cavalry more as unique shock troops and, for the points, they're really brittle

We found this the fundamental problem with WMF that heavy cavalry is just the best option.

That's why we switched to Impetus Fantasy - any cavalry could mass so many dice they'd just blast trough an opposing army on a couple of rolls, job done, game over

Quote from: fred    12df on 05 February 2015, 12:47:06 PM
We found this the fundamental problem with WMF that heavy cavalry is just the best option.

Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 03:59:05 PM
That's why we switched to Impetus Fantasy - any cavalry could mass so many dice they'd just blast trough an opposing army on a couple of rolls, job done, game over

Haven't found this but I do play very large games and use a fair bit of scenery.

In tournament style games it's certainly true.

Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 03:59:05 PM
That's why we switched to Impetus Fantasy - any cavalry could mass so many dice they'd just blast trough an opposing army on a couple of rolls, job done, game over

Warmaster cavalry heavy armies, mine included, died regularly when there was a decent amount of terrain around.

However, armoured cavalry should  be devastating in Fantasy games because that's how the source material treats them.

I have no idea why people insist on turning Fantasy into "medieval with monsters."

In fantasy, at least the stuff I've read, the following are true:

- Cavalry are queen of the battlefield

- nobody out-shoots elves

- there are no such things as skirmishers ... to be fair, I'm not sure many medieval armies understood skirmishers either

- peasants are cut down like chaff ... unless the hero is a peasant, in which case peasants have the combat skills of ninja and engineering skills that put The Corps of Royal Engineers to shame!

- a pointy stick is a pointy stick - a four foot javelin,  a six foot spear or an eighteen foot pike all work the same

- magic is destructive but tricksy

- dragons are not invulnerable ... but you do well to remember that you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Warmaster gives me that in a way other rules have not ... so far.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 05 February 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Warmaster cavalry heavy armies, mine included, died regularly when there was a decent amount of terrain around.

However, armoured cavalry should  be devastating in Fantasy games because that's how the source material treats them.

I have no idea why people insist on turning Fantasy into "medieval with monsters."

In fantasy, at least the stuff I've read, the following are true:

- Cavalry are queen of the battlefield

- nobody out-shoots elves

- there are no such things as skirmishers ... to be fair, I'm not sure many medieval armies understood skirmishers either

- peasants are cut down like chaff ... unless the hero is a peasant, in which case peasants have the combat skills of ninja and engineering skills that put The Corps of Royal Engineers to shame!

- a pointy stick is a pointy stick - a four foot javelin,  a six foot spear or an eighteen foot pike all work the same

- magic is destructive but tricksy

- dragons are not invulnerable ... but you do well to remember that you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Warmaster gives me that in a way other rules have not ... so far.

Agree with all of this.  In point of fact, your comment some time ago (in my previous incarnation) about a human having 3/3 stats has stayed with me.  Nutter units aside (flagellants et al) they should be 3/3 and cavalry should smash everything in the open.

However, if you insist on playing warmaster with very little terrain you are going to have a very dull game.

We found scaling up the armies just meant more cavalry to overrun the more infantry

It's not so much that super heavy shock cavalry are dangerously Good, more that *all* cavalry are effectively super heavy shock cavalry. I enjoy the rules (and still have an army based for it just in case), but as a group we weren't very impressed. I gather Warmaster Ancients deals better with that but then we'd have to add the fantasy back in

Terrain - we don't play on a billiard table, but you can't hide forever unless you're the Viet Cong

Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 February 2015, 06:22:13 PM

Terrain - we don't play on a billiard table, but you can't hide forever unless you're the Viet Cong

We use two or three village areas and I suppose these act a bit like infantry squares.  We've also adapted some rules to make the game slicker.  I know people argue this but I really think the game comes into it's own at 2000 points plus.  I don't know why but cavalry seem less effective when you mass the infantry up: they seem to tun out of steam.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 05 February 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Warmaster cavalry heavy armies, mine included, died regularly when there was a decent amount of terrain around.

However, armoured cavalry should  be devastating in Fantasy games because that's how the source material treats them.

I have no idea why people insist on turning Fantasy into "medieval with monsters."

In fantasy, at least the stuff I've read, the following are true:

- Cavalry are queen of the battlefield

- nobody out-shoots elves

- there are no such things as skirmishers ... to be fair, I'm not sure many medieval armies understood skirmishers either

- peasants are cut down like chaff ... unless the hero is a peasant, in which case peasants have the combat skills of ninja and engineering skills that put The Corps of Royal Engineers to shame!

- a pointy stick is a pointy stick - a four foot javelin,  a six foot spear or an eighteen foot pike all work the same

- magic is destructive but tricksy

- dragons are not invulnerable ... but you do well to remember that you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Warmaster gives me that in a way other rules have not ... so far.

Hat off for that disertation.