Warmaster Beastmen

[jchaos79]

In my humble opinion the thing has a lot to do with the way people made the armylist, not with the rule engine. If someone only think the points and how to maximieze efectiveness "is it worth? is it worth? for 5 points is not worth... do not make the list you would like to enjoy because taking another unit of heavy cavalry make you winner", yes then all the games you play are the same. But when people use the armylist to build armies beyond the "best option in points", armies that are a mirror of an idea or have a mood then the games are very diffirenent each others.

Sorry I am feeling that I could not explain myself properly... hope you get the idea of what I am trying to say.

[getagrip]

In my humble opinion the thing has a lot to do with the way people made the armylist, not with the rule engine. If someone only think the points and how to maximieze efectiveness "is it worth? is it worth? for 5 points is not worth... do not make the list you would like to enjoy because taking another unit of heavy cavalry make you winner", yes then all the games you play are the same. But when people use the armylist to build armies beyond the "best option in points", armies that are a mirror of an idea or have a mood then the games are very diffirenent each others.

Sorry I am feeling that I could not explain myself properly... hope you get the idea of what I am trying to say.

Totally: don't use the rules to create a "destroy anything army" but instead build an army to a romantic ideal.

Couldn't agree mmore.  I suppose that's the problem with fantasy; there isn't a historical precedent to follow 

[toxicpixie]

The problem is not "too much heavy cavalry", but more "all cavalry is disproportionately effective".  Illyrian Reavers (the elf bow armed riders, think spell check is mangling that for me!) are a good case in point - narrow bases, shooting, high move. Massive dice on a tiny frontage means they're brilliant Combine with high CV and they're astonishingly effective.

It's an odd conversation, I was the one in the group defending the rules and the cavalry bias. Here it looks like I'm fighting it

The question isn't "is cavalry disproportionately effective" so much as Ithorial touches on - "it is, and are you happy with that?".

[jchaos79]

The question isn't "is cavalry disproportionately effective" so much as Ithorial touches on - "it is, and are you happy with that?".

That is a very interesting / refreshing  way of seeing the old conversation.

[getagrip]

The problem is not "too much heavy cavalry", but more "all cavalry is disproportionately effective".  Illyrian Reavers (the elf bow armed riders, think spell check is mangling that for me!) are a good case in point - narrow bases, shooting, high move. Massive dice on a tiny frontage means they're brilliant Combine with high CV and they're astonishingly effective.

It's an odd conversation, I was the one in the group defending the rules and the cavalry bias. Here it looks like I'm fighting it

The question isn't "is cavalry disproportionately effective" so much as Ithorial touches on - "it is, and are you happy with that?".

Fair point but cavalry that shoot are really tough; you can't charge 'em and neither do you want to be charged by them.

Largely agree with Ithoriel though: them's the rules.  A few tweaks here and there, I like 'em.  

[toxicpixie]

It even goes for warhounds; anything on those narrow cavalry bases becomes disproportionately good. Dogs, horses, monsters, chariots, whatever.

The Elves (and esp the Reavers) are the most egregious example. Light skirmishing cavalry who are basically eagle eyed knights with extra powerful bows, under the best available generals. Lethal!

I actually rather like Warmaster. It's just after a few games it's obvious where the issues are - I'm happy to play it off and on, accepting the above foibles, others aren't. And tbh I've found Impetus Fantasy to be the better game anyway so am not unhappy we shifted

[getagrip]

It even goes for warhounds; anything on those narrow cavalry bases becomes disproportionately good. Dogs, horses, monsters, chariots, whatever.

The Elves (and esp the Reavers) are the most egregious example. Light skirmishing cavalry who are basically eagle eyed knights with extra powerful bows, under the best available generals. Lethal!

I actually rather like Warmaster. It's just after a few games it's obvious where the issues are - I'm happy to play it off and on, accepting the above foibles, others aren't. And tbh I've found Impetus Fantasy to be the better game anyway so am not unhappy we shifted

Fair comment: what basing does Impetus use?

[toxicpixie]

We're using 15mm sized basing - 80mm wide, depth variable for unit type between 30mm for heavy foot to 60mm for mounted. I started with sabot'ing Warmaster bases onto closest way to fit, then rebased except for one army that's a keeper for me Basically two 'Master bases to one Impetus unit

[getagrip]

Thanks, was hoping it would be the same.  Couldn't bare to do it to all my WM armies.  May have a go at saboting 

[jchaos79]

@getagrip: Which armies do you have?

@Toxicpixie: What is the army you keep and not rebase?

[getagrip]

@getagrip: Which armies do you have?

Painted:

Vamps
Khemri
Empire
Elves
Samurai (own army list)
Orcs

On the bench:
Kislev
Dwarfs
Mongol (own list)

[toxicpixie]

The Army of the Winter King, Fae Host of the Court of Snow and Ice. I use the Deamon army list for a themed army based on the snow faeries Snow trolls as Deamons, Ice Elves as Hordes, mixed centaurs (normal, Orc), wolves and all sorts as cavalry and a cunning blizzard of cotton wool as flyers! Plus a huge 28mm Fomor as a Greater Deamon - Balor of the Terrible Eye

[jchaos79]

Would be so nice seeing the Winter King Army and the Samurai of getagrip. 

[getagrip]

Would be so nice seeing the Winter King Army and the Samurai of getagrip. 

Sorry Chaos, won't post them:

a) Not Pendraken,
b) My first 10mm army, not great

[toxicpixie]

Try this - awkward link due to being on the phone!

https://m.facebook.com/jtppainting/photos/pb.1375731686009965.-2207520000.1423212849./1414439508805849/?type=1&source=42

[jchaos79]

Thanks  Toxicp. a little bit tiny picture.. I could barely see the figs.

Getagrip: ok,

I enjoy seeing warmaster armies, I am not a superfan of the superperfect paint. Sometimes an army with character and paint to basic tabletop game caught my eye more than the superb painting like Eavy metal. It happens when I see white dwarf magazines, they are so top noch paint that... I said ok is the same on and on, they give 25 burshes strocks for painting the nose of the marine. I am not going to do that. But I enjoy seeing "real" figures, what normal people (not profesional painters) uses to play. In example, Lex painting... how I would say it... is not the most professional work I had seen.... but I really love his way of painting, rush painting, leaving metal some parts of the figure or even 10mm miniatures with 4 colours, but full of character, blue beards on dwarves, dead boars among the ranges. You see the figures and they are from Lex (with the virtude and defects) its his style. I enjoy discovering styles more than perfection in the paint.

But sorry, maybe I am hijicking your thread... to conduct them again... what was the topic?  aaah yes Bestmens Army.

I leave you my proposal for Bestmens army

- Hardworkers  (Inf)  3 3 6+   2/-  : they are making more hours of work in order to improve
- Employee of the month (Inf)  3 4 6+  0/1  : This guys are above the average because they are tough and thave a great capacity of working
- Messengers  (cav)  3 3 5+  : Riding their bikes they have the important mission of delivery envelops and letteres
- Sucker up boss (monst)  4 3 5+  special 1stand. Terror. Can not be dirven back by fire.: This kind of employee is a fallen bestman who can only survive in the army suching up the boss

- The field boss (cha) Command: 8 radius:20cm  +0
- The superboss (cha)  Command: 7  radius:60 +1
- The president of the company (General): Command 5  radius: whole battlefield +2

- Golf car (mount) this mount could be used  by the presiden of the company if the battle is during the week. Superboss can use the mount if the battle is in the weekend.

[Matt J]

- Golf car (mount) this mount could be used  by the presiden of the company if the battle is during the week. Superboss can use the mount if the army is in the weekend.

like that special rule

[getagrip]

I like the "suck up"; one (or more) in every office

Okay Chaos, you win.  Next time I dust off my Samurai (8000+ points) I'll photograph them

[toxicpixie]

Try this for a bigger close up - https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-0/1011076_1414440092139124_1782148785_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=79ed524fe34bd909b9ae142cdb6fcbec&oe=55515F7A&__gda__=1432702498_74933b3453ab5e1b9df9d2ad539cee3a

[jchaos79]

It is great, you use cotton for snow! wow that is good one.

@getagrip