Hello everyone!

I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping someone here can help me answer a question that's been bugging me for some time.

I'm working away on my collection of FPW miniatures and I cannot find any information on what the fanions looked like for the Zouave regiments 1st and 3rd battalions.

If anyone can provide a description, drawing, or even a book title that's known to have the information I would be most appreciative!

Thanks!

-Pat

I can't help Pat but welcome to the forum. I'm sure some of the other members who are very knowledgeable on this period will be along soon to help you out .

Pat

Welcome to the forum.

Not sure I can be of great help, as I only have colour details for the Tirailluer and Chasseurs.

Also not sure how you will apply this company fanion to a model. They were approx. 1 foot square and the pole was stuck in the barrel of the rifle of the bearer.

Chad

Carefully Chad!

I'm not sure on this one, but welcome to the Forum and I'm sure the Big Guns of 1870 will be along momentarily to help. Mollinary, Le Manchu, Camerionian, Last Hussar, Hertsblue and Dour Purtian are an absolute gold mine of information on this period, and I am but standing on the shoulders of giants...

Lemmey

I based my comment on the illustrations of Tirailleurs
in Detaille, who I assume is correct.

Chad

And I was being very silly Chad!
I have no sources for this, so your ahead of me (as always).

Lemmey

No probs. mate.

Found this on the t'internet.

Such a flag is not a standard as such, in the same sense as a regimental colour, but a fanion (the nearest English equivalent is perhaps battalion or company marker). It is used to mark the position of the unit, especially its commanding officer, on parade and in the field. They are only small, and were attached to a small staff which was placed in the muzzle of a rifle. The regulation sizes were 50cm x 40cm for a battalion fanion, 40 x 30 for a company fanion, and 34 x 27 for a platoon fanion (the latter can also be a triangular pennant 30 x 40).

The regulations of 1857 laid down the colours:-

1st battalion of each regiment: blue sheet
2nd battalion: red sheet
3rd battalion: yellow sheet
4th battalion: green sheet

When wartime expansion created extra battalions, these used fanions in the same sequence of colours, but with a central vertical white band down the sheet.

The devices were coloured by company (note that in the French army, companies were numbered consecutively through the regiment, and not the battalion):

1st, 5th, 9th, 13th: blue
2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th: red
3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th: yellow
4th, 8th, 12th, 16th: green

Chad

I have also put ina request for information on another forum.

http://18edelignesecondempire.clicforum.fr/

Will let you know if I get a response.

Chad

Wow, good find! 

I am afraid this is an area where I am a broken reed!   The one book that I believe is likely to include such information is not currently in my collection.  I had access to a friend's copy a couple of years ago, but he has now returned to France and I to England. The book is published by le leopard d'or in France, and is by the famous vexillologist Pierre Charrie.  He produced a three volume series on French flags, the first on the drapeaux et etandards du roi (of which I do have copy), the second on the revolution and Ist empire (not my period), and the final volume on flags of the XIX century from 1814 - 1880.  The books are magisterial, written in French in a pretty straightforward style, but a bit hard to get hold of in UK.  But I think Le Leopard D'or have their own website, and I think the book is still available at about 58€.   Sorry to be so imprecise.

Mollinary

Welcome from me too, Pat.
Cheers - Phil

The paintings I've seen show the prophet's hand on the relevant background colour; there is some adornment in the corners but I can't remember what, grenades? Mollinary is the expert on flags, give him a bit longer and I'm sure he'll come up with something.

Quote from: cameronian on 15 June 2014, 11:03:33 AM
The paintings I've seen show the prophet's hand on the relevant background colour; there is some adornment in the corners but I can't remember what, grenades? Mollinary is the expert on flags, give him a bit longer and I'm sure he'll come up with something.

.  Shouldn't give the poor chap false hope, Cam.  Other than the book I mentioned I have nowhere to look.  The flag you are thinking of is, I think, one of the fanions of the Tirailleurs Algeriens. There are some illustrations on Warflag, but I cannot vouch for their accuracy.  I have seen a black and white picture of one of these on the web, an illustration from a Prussian book of 1899 showing trophies, but again I have no further details.   If I came across a copy at a show I'd probably buy it, but I am not going to engage in cross channel e traffic just to answer this one question!   And where would it lead?  I am NOT going to do fanions for every 1st and 3rd battalion in my French Army, as that would be some 140 fanions!   Sometimes ignorance is preferable!


Mollinary

Would it be worth looking for images from WW1?. Would the fanion been changed in the intervening years?

Just a thought

Quote from: Fenton on 15 June 2014, 12:13:34 PM
Would it be worth looking for images from WW1?. Would the fanion been changed in the intervening years?

Just a thought

.  Not a bad thought, but it is a long time, and you do go through a change of regime in between.  I think it highly unlikely that the pattern would remain unchanged.

Mollinary