Russian Grenadiers

[Hertsblue]

Here's a question regarding the Great Northern War that's only just occurred to me: did the Russian grenadier regiments, made up of men stripped out of the line regiments, have a pike contingent and, if so, did they wear the mitre? If the answer is "yes" to both then I (and anyone else building up armies) have a problem.

[Hwiccee]

The Russians had separate companies of grenadiers, all musket armed with no pikes.

When the grenadier companies were still in non grenadier units we basically have no idea what they looked like, i.e. we don't know if they wore the mitre. When the grenadier companies were taken from some units, typically around 1708-09, and formed into permanent grenadier regiments they got mitres. Indeed they got a new full uniform. Again we don't know if the grenadiers that remained with other units got the mitre.

[FierceKitty]

I seem to remember that the mitre was a smartened-up version of a stocking cap, both originally worn because a tricorn interfered with throwing a grenade. Early Russian grenadiers may reasonably have looked like other ones, perhaps?

[Hwiccee]

There are 2 sets of unknown here - what the grenadiers wore before some grenadier regiments were formed and what the grenadiers who did not go to these units wore after these units were formed. There is also a kind of 3rd one which is we don't know what even some of the grenadier regiments/battalions wore.

I think that there must be a good chance that at around the time when the grenadier regiments were formed all grenadiers went into mitres, including the ones that stayed with 'Line' units and in grenadier units we don't know about.

That has to be a 'best guess' as I am afraid the tricorn interfering with grenade throwing is probably a myth. The French and most Swedish grenadiers (and others) happily operated in tricorn's without any noticeable problems - they wore normal tricon's like the rest of the unit. Maybe this idea dates back to the earlier era when hats were floppier and so could of interefered. In any case to return to the Russians then maybe they did wear the mitre early but they didn't need to and there isn't any evidence for them. So 'best guess' would probably have to be that they didn't.

[Ace of Spades]

I re-enacted 18th century military and the tricorn is a bummer for musket drill in particular, so they should have replaced them throughout the army if interference with the normal routine would have been a reason. The fact that they didn't suggests to me that there was a different reason in all. It probably had something to do with fashion, distinction of the 'elite' status and the fact that in most armies the grenadiers were the tallest men. If you want them to look even more impressive stick on a higher hat! But then again; thats my opinion and I cannot prove it in any way...

Cheers,
Rob

[Leman]

One of the things the Austrians got right after the SYW.

[FierceKitty]

Floppy Wee Willy Winkie caps were a mark of elite status?

[Ace of Spades]

With all the colourfull embroidery and everything on it I can imagine it was.

[Hertsblue]

OK, thanks for your input, gents. My main concern was that, like the line regiments, the foot grenadier regiments had a body of pike, but dressed in mitres. As you've confirmed my impression that all grenadiers were musket armed, I shan't have to find a pikeman figure from somewhere.

Incidentally, for those who are interested, I have commissioned a horse-grenadier figure from Techno, to fill that gap in the Russian range, and he has, at the same time, tidied up the mounted officer and mounted drummer. The masters are now complete and hopefully the figures should be available fairly soon.   

[Hwiccee]

If you are looking for missing figures from the Russian range then can I suggest early pikemen. The Streltsi figures (GNR7) will do for the Line infanty (after cutting off the axes). We don't know if the Streltsi had pikes at this time (or indeed axes) but the early Line infantry certainly did. So pikemen in Streltsi type dress would be good.

On the 'flashy' hat question it is certainly the current theory that they were for prestige, to look imposing, etc, and not for any practical purpose.