Nik,

Do it, the book is worth the tag even if you never play the game. I am planning Tartars and possibly Ottoman in 10mm.

Cheers,

Craig

We played this a lot recently, using 15mm. I would certainly agree on the book alone being worth it. It's such a nice book, with lots and lots of illustrations, and just very well done.

As to Swedes being unstoppable, yes they do have some advantages. But they also have disadvantages, and it also depends on the scenario. Which is one of the highlights of the game, as quite uneven forces can still fight, but the weaker side gets a choice for the scenario, and possibly some additional bonus effects as well.

If you want advice for your forces, buy lots and lots of Ottomans. And then some more. Oh, and some Polish as well. The lists for the first level (Skirmish game) with a (smallish) force of around 10-50 bases can be downloaded from the wargamer.pl website. For the next level (Division), you might need around 3-5 times as many, and some extra. Some troop types (like Polish winged hussars or Ottoman Janissaries) only make an appearance at the divisional level.

Edit: Oh. And did I mention that Pawel Chrzanowski is listed among the 'Figures painted by' credits?

Quote from: TinyTerrain on 14 January 2014, 12:31:44 AM
Nik,

Do it, the book is worth the tag even if you never play the game. I am planning Tartars and possibly Ottoman in 10mm.

Bought last night - it's £35 from North Star in the January sale at the moment 

Anyone fancy sharing their 'buy' lists with me? This limited i'net access (again) is a nightmare in terms of force-planning...

I'm looking at Polish & Ottomans, possibly Tartars (using Mongols I think?)

Still sorely tempted by this but with limited funds I'm loathe to shell out on something I might only use occassionally...

Q1. When does North Stars sale end and what postage cost on the book (I have heard its hefty!)

Q2. The Army Dice look like d10 with symbols and numbers. Will normal d10 suffice?

Q3. Other than armies (I already have Poles and Swedes) do I need anything else to play?

Thanks in advance

Quote from: Nosher on 18 January 2014, 10:47:15 AM
Still sorely tempted by this but with limited funds I'm loathe to shell out on something I might only use occassionally...

Q1. When does North Stars sale end and what postage cost on the book (I have heard its hefty!)

Q2. The Army Dice look like d10 with symbols and numbers. Will normal d10 suffice?

Q3. Other than armies (I already have Poles and Swedes) do I need anything else to play?

A1: Don't know, sorry. But it is a heavy book (around 2 kilos).

A2: Normal D10's will be just fine. IMHO these army dice aren't very readable, so you're better off with normal D10's anyway.

A3: You need order markers, which you can buy, or download and print. You also need casualty markers, you could either use any kind of marker, or casualty figures if these are available.

Quote from: nikharwood on 18 January 2014, 10:14:39 AM
Bought last night - it's £35 from North Star in the January sale at the moment 

Anyone fancy sharing their 'buy' lists with me? This limited i'net access (again) is a nightmare in terms of force-planning...

I'm looking at Polish & Ottomans, possibly Tartars (using Mongols I think?)

I hope you like it!

Tatars would be a good choice, as they can be used together with Poles and Ottomans (and everybody else really, except the Swedes). Mongols would work fine, I think. There is also "OT7 Tartar auxiliaries cavalry, bow/sabre" from the Ottoman range, that would also work, I suppose.

For a Skirmish level list you can use the following:

Polish (or Lithuanian) : Pancerni (P2), Cossack style cav (P12), Tatars (OT7/Mongol), Wallachians (P3?), dragoons (P13 + P10 as dismounted?)

Ottoman : Sipahi (OT4), Gonullu/Besli (OT5?), Segbans (??), Dellis (OT6) (only 2 or 3 bases)

Tatars : Warriors (unarmoured horse archers, some with javelin), Rabble (with improvised weapon or javelin)

You also need a commander base (or maybe 2) for Poles and Ottomans.

Number of packs depend on how many figures you put on a base. The rules use DBx style bases, so 4x3 with 3 figures for most mounted units, and 4x2 with 3 figures for foot. With 10mm, you might want to use a few more, I think? Around 24 bases total (spread around the various types) should give you enough to field large skirmish forces. For Ottomans it could be a few more, say 30 (more if you use Segbans). For Tatars, also around 30 (more if you want to use a 'Rabble' skirmish force).

It might help if you had a look at the skirmish lists that you can download here. 

The skirmish lists could be useful for 'Pike & Shotte' which I've just bought .

Postage from North Star is 10% 

Thanks for those suggestions OldenBUA - is it just me being thick (entirely likely), but those lists are a bit indecipherable? I'm just not sure what they're saying - and I don't know enough about this period yet to know what figures would suit troop types etc 

I'm also thinking about Pike & Shotte - they're a reasonable price as well now...so it might end up being By Fire & Sword for background & eye candy, then P&S for rules 

I've just bought Pike&Shotte and it does cover this period with a Polish and Ottoman list, albeit rather briefly. The F&S book will certainly fill in the gaps .

Quote from: Steve J on 19 January 2014, 08:17:53 AM
I've just bought Pike&Shotte and it does cover this period with a Polish and Ottoman list, albeit rather briefly. The F&S book will certainly fill in the gaps .

Thanks Steve...another rulebook ordered. You're such a bad influence 

Can you send the nurse over again please? 

Quote from: nikharwood on 18 January 2014, 08:59:27 PM
Thanks for those suggestions OldenBUA - is it just me being thick (entirely likely), but those lists are a bit indecipherable? I'm just not sure what they're saying - and I don't know enough about this period yet to know what figures would suit troop types etc 

There's also a guide to the armylists in the downloads. That might help. But basically, all lists work the same way. You start with a commander (colonel) with a number of command points and a basic force (the first line on the chart). On this line are the various units. Each silhouette represents a single figure, so three figures together is a base. A column of these (usually 2 or 3) represents a unit (called a banner for Polish, ala/cemaat for Ottomans, torhak for Tatars). All figures that are greyed out are optional, you can fill out these units by buying extra bases. From the second line onwards, you have extra units that you can add. Usually these give you a choice of units. For example, the Polish lists gives you a 2-base Cossack style OR Tatar OR Wallachian unit (all can be expanded to 3 bases). On the right hand side there may be extra greyed out figures. You can buy these if you field enough troops (like the Polish Rotamaster subcommander), or you get a set number, depending on how many troops you field, like the Polish getting 3 to 6 bases of volunteer cavalry. On the bottom, there are notes giving point values for the various options. Sometimes you get extra options, like swapping one type of unit for another one.

I gave some suggestions on the figure codes, based on what I know, and the description in the Pendraken catalogue. There are no pictures in this range, but from what I've seen from armies posted on the forum they should work. If you want to dive straight in and go to divisional level, you get a lot more options. Basically, each division has a main commander, 3 to 5 regiments, divisional artillery and a choice of extra units. Each regiment has the same type of structure as a skirmish force, but with usually only a few troop types, and less options. But you get to choose which regiments to use in the division. The Poles have many choices here, the Ottomans and Tatars are more limited. Here is where you'll find the winged hussars (in Polish cavalry regiments), reiters, pike and shot infantry and levies for the Poles. And janissaries (max 1 regiment) and some special units like Silahdars and Tufekci for the Ottomans.

I hope that helps a bit. Otherwise, wait till you get the book, and get some serious 'me' time. Planning divisions can be quite addictive!

QuoteThanks Steve...another rulebook ordered. You're such a bad influence  Wink

Can you send the nurse over again please?  Grin

Not a chance as she is adminstering salve to my poor and frail body... .

The rulebook is very nice and I'm tempted by the Irish Nine Years War/Plantation Wars due to the great mix of figures involved. At least I can use my 2mm ECW armies to get going in the meantime.

Quote from: OldenBUA on 19 January 2014, 10:33:34 AM
I hope that helps a bit. Otherwise, wait till you get the book, and get some serious 'me' time. Planning divisions can be quite addictive!

Thanks OldenBUA - that helps a lot! (I think was being dense - but now you've explained it, it all makes sense  )

I think I can see divisions on the horizon - otherwise we're not getting the funky stuff 

Quote from: Steve J on 19 January 2014, 11:37:24 AM
Not a chance as she is adminstering salve to my poor and frail body... .

The rulebook is very nice and I'm tempted by the Irish Nine Years War/Plantation Wars due to the great mix of figures involved. At least I can use my 2mm ECW armies to get going in the meantime.

Sounds good to me 

Quote from: nikharwood on 19 January 2014, 01:26:20 PM
I think I can see divisions on the horizon - otherwise we're not getting the funky stuff 

Spoken like a true wargamer! Where would we be if we didn't want the funky stuff!

Alex

Wow. Just wow. This arrived today via North Star and I am totally, utterly, blown away. For someone like me who tends towards the critical, this is an awesomely rendered wargames book. Superbly bound, beautifully set, with lovely thick paper - high quality illustrations & photos (of models, games and re-enactors, really well done) throughout - and, even at nearly 400 pages, not any 'filler'.

I'm enthralled - I know next-to-nothing really about this period in this setting - but I am enormously pleased that I decided to buy this book (and thanks for the encouragement, chaps!). It might be the best part of £40 - but I would say that this is one of the most beautiful wargaming books I have ever seen.

The fact that it will get me into a new period, with new armies, new painting, new rules, new adventures - is a bonus. I could quite happily sit here & read this tome over & over again.

Seriously, if you've been uncertain about this - go buy it. Now. You'll love it - even if you only play WW2  

Oh - and it's still on sale at North Star in Nick's January Bargains for £35

Hello Nik

It's great that you've found this period, one that I've always been interested in.

One point to bear in mind is that descriptions and histories from both sides can be jingoistic and nationalistic to the extreme (including later material) ,and sometimes you have to read both sides' stories and come to a happy average.

If you ask a Pole his only puzzle is why the Winged Hussars didn't overrun all of Europe  , and is you talk to Cossacks they only lost because the Poles were underhanded with the Cossacks' Tartar allies  .

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan