Quote from: Malbork on 10 August 2012, 01:16:41 PM
A bit of googling, since I'm not at home, has reminded me that is was in fact Arthur Taylor's Rules fro Wargaming and published in 1971.

I've still got my copy of them. Have to give them a try and my brother has the Complete Brigadier box so that may well be worth me having a look at.

Up until the last year or so I mainly had Games workshop and a few RPGs but I'm now reborn!!! So ill hopefully have a fresh view.

For me it's the mind set of the game, imagining that hoard of  Vikings, the marching of the Romans, the screaming of Orks, the Drums of Napoleonic regiments, the two rank fire of British against Zulus, the rumble of tanks through ruined fresh villages, the automatic fire of future soldiers or the growl of a 10ft alien!... That doesn't mean that the rules don't matter, infact the opposite, if the rules are bust, the imagination is bust! For example Luddite (in his residual self image) showed me and Dim_Reaper 'Hord of the things' It's nice, it captures my imagination and I can imagine massive regiment doing battle.

So when me and Dim started writing a system for our Doctor who game (as well as a Zombi game and a few more)  we stick to the concept of the 3 Fs...

1) FIT   Dose the system fit with how you imagin? If two units fire at each other, is the aftermath as you imagine? Or do the troops move as you would imagin? It's not based on facts, just what you see as correct given the fiction you are playing and the boundarys of the world your playing in?

2) FUN   Within the system do you enjoy it? Does the game drag, does it have to much detail, or not enough? Is it a mess of counters on the board or too many dice roles?

3) FAIR is the system fair? For both sides?

The point is, as it all is, it's opinion, my 3 Fs are a good concept, but its up to the players to decide if a system lives up to this concepts.

Hi.  Yes - too many to choose from, very expensive at times, and trying to convince us that THESE ARE THE RULES TO BEAT ALL RULES.

But also NO. Don't you just love reading all those "new" - or not so new - ideas.  And Oh! All that eye candy.

Suppose it sounds like i've got a split personality?

Suppose that's why i posted my enquiry about the "perfect" set of Ancient Rules _ had lots of good feedback.  Thanks guys.

Sets Chad and I have bought and we've had fun with and enjoyed are;

Neil Thomas's Ancient Rules,  Maurice,  March Attack,  Die Fighting  and  Field of Battle -  to name but a few of the many we've bought over the years.

Best Wishes   DaveL

I must say i don't really care for all those "must-buy" rules. My first foray in historical wargaming  was via some revell figures and a free set of rules i found on freewargamerules.co.uk:

http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/


Not all that is on there is good, but some are usable, and it always beats havig to buy a set! Most of these are fairly simple so allow for quick games too!

The last set i was looking at are these:  http://met.open.ac.uk/group/jwl/napoleonic/fprules.pdf

However, when something good comes along, like the first time i played BKC, i can always go out and buy me a copy, as i will have never lost anything but the paper i printed my free rules on

Not to say i don't ask around though, knowing is half the battle

Edit: just a little example of neat stuff you can find: http://www.juniorgeneral.org/waterloo/waterloo.html

Do I think the market is overstuffed? Well yeah, but here's where I stand up and say "My name is Gordon, and I'm a rules junkie."

I try to restrict myself to only buying 2 rulesets a month, pretty much the only ones I'll avoid like the plague are those that follow the Games Workshop/Battlefront formula, i.e. a rulebook followed by 243 supplements/codexes, the only exception to this being WRG's Ancients and DBM, well a ruleset that spans the globe and covers 5000 years should be cut a little slack. I'll also avoid buying rules that are just released, I'd much rather look at a few AARs (mainly to see if the unit basing gives the 'look' of the period that I want) and read a couple of reviews to see if the mechanics suit me.

Lately I find myself buying rulesets that I had 25 years ago (last one was Irregulars Ancients Rule box) and being amazed that hell yeah these are really good and then wondering why I've spent the last quarter century trying to find a better one.

I dont see it as overstuffed. Market forces will dictate what survives and what doesn't but I love the choice we have theses days.

The vast majority of rules in my cupboard have never been played but bought on a whim, read and put away.

My all time favourite set are over 20 years old (original Fire and Fury). I have played and enjoyed the Black Powder and Bolt Action. I have also played rules by Featherstone and Wesencraft.

I had a discussion with a mate at WMMS yesterday who says his club are searching for a set of Ancients they like. Th problem is they have played just about every set of Ancients rules you could name. Not sure if he has tried Neil Thomas' rules yet so may suggest those.

So for me, the more the better. Whether there are many original ideas in any of these new sets is another question.

Sean

Quote from: Windle Poons on 11 March 2013, 10:08:02 AM
I dont see it as overstuffed. Market forces will dictate what survives and what doesn't but I love the choice we have theses days.

......

So for me, the more the better. Whether there are many original ideas in any of these new sets is another question.

Sean

Hear, hear! If the market is overstuffed, so what? What's the solution? Censorship? Issue of licenses to produce? Mass book-burning? That's absurd.

As Sean says, the market will take care of the situation eventually. In the meantime, browse what's available and if it takes your fancy - buy it. Otherwise put it back on the shelf.

As far as peer-pressure to continually switch goes, our group has a tacit agreement that only one member will buy a set of new rules so that they can be evaluated on the table. We're going through the process with Hail Caesar and Blitzkreig Commander at the moment. Only when and if they obtain general approval will anyone else chip in. And we're not shy of rejigging them if we think something's amiss.

As for a lack of new ideas - you could always try contributing your own. To mis-quote Shaw - those who can, do; those who cannot, buy.   

Whilst browsing other rule mechanisms I have frequently utilised a long period of research and developed my own alongside a friend whom also reads extensively .
At present I am looking at other sets as I am developing an alternative 19th Cen setting and as I want to work on a grand skirmish level of small squads I am looking to develop a system that allows single and group fire. I am also looking to.develop a solo system as I frequently play solo .
The free Wargames site is a valuable resource and also prevents the large companies always gaining money.which as the entries indicate results in shelves bursting with unused volumes.

Not sure there are too many, but boy they are expensive! What I REALLY notice is a conspicuous lack of rules articles in the wargames mags - in the past I got rules by Andy Callan and Richard Brooks amongst others, that I still use, and barely a month would go by that there wouldn't be a rules article that gave some fresh ideas. Now - not sure where these have gone? (free wargames rules on-line perhaps - but I don't really have the enthusiasm to trawl through pages of dross to find something worthwhile). Does everyone who might once have contributed via a magazine article now aspire to publishing their set at 30 quid a go and retiring on their earnings?
Maybe I'm just old!

like others have said market forces will sort it out.  I use some expensive rules and some cheap one also use some of free wargames website.

I like the idea of Osprey bringing out cheaper rules though I have a complete set of the Force on Force and Bolt Action rules.

After many years of wargaming I starting to stick to rules for the periods I game.  Thats the plan guess i will find out when then next set of rules come out.

I just enjoy collecting rules and shiney figures. 

Quote from: richinq on 09 December 2013, 10:37:04 PM
I like the idea of Osprey bringing out cheaper rules though I have a complete set of the Force on Force and Bolt Action rules.

Neither of those sets of rules are what I would call cheap, almost £100 for Bolt Action, more for Force on Force..    

Quote from: Derek H on 13 December 2013, 08:37:02 AM
Neither of those sets of rules are what I would call cheap, almost £100 for Bolt Action, more for Force on Force..    

Far canal! For that sort of money I'd want the complete rifle! 

The cheap one I have is A world Aflame.

Quote from: richinq on 13 December 2013, 12:19:05 PM
The cheap one I have is A world Aflame.

Which is a pretty poor ruleset.

Dux Bellorum and In Her Majesties Name are far better i would suggest.

DB and IHMN are both very good and damned good value at between £7-£8 on Amazon including delivery.

There seems to be a current trend for figure manufacturers to produce big sets of rules then the figures to play them, basically following the GW business model,  Warlord is the most obvious example but there are many others.  The trend seems to have taken off when Warhammer historical was finnaly killed off, we've had a number of sets of rules aimed at filling the WHA niche, 28mm figures with relatively small numbers of figs and units, interestingly several of them seem to have been penned by ex WHH staff members.

Try Repique Rules for any number of completely original ideas, particularly Die Fighting, 2nd edition coming out soon which is a video rules set, walking through the rules in handy 2 minute segments showing you exactly how to play them - downloadable accessories & everything you'll need at a cost less than printed rule sets. This is being produced by Bob Jones who is a professional in both media & war-games rules. If you want something different & a great game, check them out. I don't work for Bob, I just LOVE his rules.

i

Quote from: DanJ on 31 December 2013, 03:08:30 PM
There seems to be a current trend for figure manufacturers to produce big sets of rules then the figures to play them, basically following the GW business model,

But that's not the GW business model anymore.

In fact Games Workshop don't produce games at all.

They produce collectible figurines apparently.

Something they forgot to tell their game-playing customer base...

What are people's stance towards home-made (complete) rules?

Are people willing to share their rules for free, and are people in general willing to test them?

I'm primarily asking this because while some of the rules I do appreciate like Lasalle, I wouldn't mind seeing more home-made ones to see if they're any more interesting. I think Elan is the other one I keep on me as I find it quite detailed.

Yes and yes. Try here.

http://rulesdepot.net/index.html