Three Fs and 40k

[Vulpine]

I know what your thinking... 3 Fs.... There all rude words? They ain't. Also, this is not a rant its a review and I will, endeavour to keep it factual and not include any guy with the initials M.W. in this review... Ill try!


So what are the 3 Fs, there the bases and rules that I use to wright game systems.

1) Fit- Dose the system fit with how you imagin? If a two units fire at each other, is the aftermath as you imagine? Or do the troops move as you would imagin? It's not based on facts, just what you see as correct given the fiction you are playing and the boundarys of the world your playing in?

2) Fun- Within the system do you enjoy it? Does the game drag, does it have to much detail, or not enough? Is it a mess of counters on the board or too many dice roles?

3) Fair- is the system fair? For both sides?



So, the review... Based on my totally full prof rules (ok I realise all of the above are based on the uses opinion) how did I find 40k 6th Ed?

1) Fit - Does it hell! Marines don't seam so hardcore anymore? But the main (but not the only one) was the bit when I shot at a unit of Necron wraiths. They took wounds but only the ones on the front of the squad, as is the new rules... Next turn they just moved the wounded ones to the back. That's kinda goes in with fair, it's stupid, so I can shoot a unit behind or the front of that unit, but not the ones at the back? What a mess Ge have produced. The other mess I can think of has been since 4th Ed. it used to be that a rapid fire could fire then charge, GW decided this was unfair (ok then) and then space marines got Bolt pistols, well ain't that almost what we had before? Some got pistols anyway, depending on the codex you own. What a hash. My mate (Dim-reaper) said "the rule book should be correct, not let the armie books and supliment a make quick fixes!" He's right.

2) Fair - it depends who wrote the codex, Well, I won't menthion his name! But it's not just the codex (I'm sure 2nd and 3rd Ed didn't have codex creep) but I won't go into what everyone els has, infact it gets on my Nerves when people talk about M.W. I wouldn't mind if the people twisting had something new to say about him? Anyway, the main bit of fairness is that fact that you must take the same army list as everyone els. I'm sure in 2nd and 3rd evry one had differences and flavour in the army lists. I had talks with people about what they have been taking and why they did it different to you and such. Now its do the list off the net of you lose... Where is the colour guys?

3) Fun - Nope! It dragged, it took for ages to do everything. The main reason it dragged is that buy turn 2 I realised I lost... The main reason was not due to my tactics, it was due to the fact I got my army as I like some of the units and I wanted a good looking, charictor rich force. Line of sight, it's another rule from 2nd ed they removed and then put back in as if its fantastic, it's suppose to make you feel part of the battle and so make it more fun. It makes for arguments and a stiff neck!


Final thought... I must say, I think it's improved since 5th ed... It's still poop tho. It's twise as expensive than most other games and four times as pants. 40k has an amazing background and I loved it for so long! What a shame. RIP40k

[petercooman]

So very true.

I lost my feeling for 40k when 6th edition was released.

Ypu may or may not remember from the igmb, but i have an entire OOP metal cadian guard army. I made the army with the thought of not using ay of the new kits, so i even use old leman russes whe, i can.

Now the emphasis of the new 6th edition is on flyers. I don't want to buy a single valkyrie though, so i am having trouble from the beginning. So i just gave up and stayed at 5th edition :p

[Vulpine]

Did you not get them at a charity shop? Can't remember but one IGMB found a OOP Cadian army at at charity shop and asked us all if they should by it. The reply from most was "nope, tell me were it is and ill get it!" Don't get me wrong I love old guard (they all looked different and had a different style, boo hiss for being different!)

You can always get 2nd ed rules and codex's... However, your memory may fool you, it was a slow game with a daft amount of card markers on it -' overwatch was nasty also. 3rd ed is most Lilly my fav, although I do admit I like objectives, but you could have them in 3rd it was just that most games were kill eachother.

The other thing is GW want you to spend cash... So they uped the size if the games (aint it a skermish game?) and added larger things that cost more. I'm not against them making cash, they ain't a charity. But for me the models should sell the rules, not the rules should sell the models!

For me, it's about imagining what's going on and the plot of the battle and stuff. Rules wise, as long as it fits my view with the 3Fs I'm happy!

[GordonY]

Sorry I gave up on 40k at Rogue Trader edition, if I want a small skirmish, I'll use FWC, if I want a larger one I'll use Stargrunt. Neither ruleset is particularly interested in what or whose minis you use, or indeed selling you a bunch of "must have" codexes that fix all the errors that should have come up in playtesting. Do yourself a favour Vulpine, go to Ground Zero Games website and download (its free) Stargrunt, then read it, its fast, its free, its fun, the fairness is all up to you.

[petercooman]

No, i had some of the old guys from when they came out, and got some over ebay, and purchased a good sized army over dakka.

I like 5th edition more than 3rd. For me it was optimal. Off course i have to add that i played against non power gamers though, so that made 5th fun. Playing it competivily just makes it a horrible gae for me.

[nikharwood]

Sorry I gave up on 40k at Rogue Trader edition, if I want a small skirmish, I'll use FWC, if I want a larger one I'll use Stargrunt. Neither ruleset is particularly interested in what or whose minis you use, or indeed selling you a bunch of "must have" codexes that fix all the errors that should have come up in playtesting. Do yourself a favour Vulpine, go to Ground Zero Games website and download (its free) Stargrunt, then read it, its fast, its free, its fun, the fairness is all up to you.

Well said, Gordon...I'd add FUBAR & Tomorrow's War to those two as well (depending on my mood)...FUBAR's free as well 

[Vulpine]

I know you will give me a anti GW look m, but I would defiantly put Necromunda on a list of good Wargames (it has some faults, but most games do).

[nikharwood]

Yep - Necromunda's a great GW game...as is Mordheim of course

[GordonY]

Not to mention the King of all rulesets, Warmaster.

[nikharwood]

Not to mention the King of all rulesets, Warmaster.

Hear, hear. 

[Luddite]

All those years ago GW produced a marvellous little skirmish engine, and they've used it ever since in various iterations.

Warhammer Fantasy Skirmish
Mordheim
Necromunda
Legends of the Old West
Legends of the High Seas
Gladiator
Lord of the Rings

Quite why they don't just stick to this core mechanic is beyond me.  Their 'core rules' (WFB & 40K) are complete cluster-fuddles...

Warmaster is also a decent fantasy set.  Nice, simple, a bit fiddly, and doesn't translate well to non-fantasy as its a divisional game that pretended to be a tactical / brigade game.

Personally i stopped playing 40K at 3rd Edition.  Mostly as there's little that annoys me more than 'revisions'.  Field of Glory 2.0 is a recent case in point.  New release with almost no changes as far as i can tell.  Skirmishers aren't quite as powerful in the 'retreat in good order' tactic, and Heavy Weapons are the new uber-weapon, but that's about it.

Franklly i think if a company releases a new version, everyone who bought the old version should get the new one for free.  But then GW would be out of business since its whole business model is built around mugging its loyal customers time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time afer time...

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

You know that is one thing Battlefront do do with their core rules, despite their faults and the number of people who dislike them, when they released their last two editions of the rules they have replaced original rule books for free, 3rd edition was 200 pages plus. Pity they don't do the same thing with suppliments... 

[Vulpine]

That's the thing, it was a good skirmish rule set, but they wanna sell more models. So instead of redoing the rules for larger games they have just added quick fix rules, as if they just prit-sticked bits on as they went.

Tell you another pants rule set, that I didn't find fun (very slow moving) or fair (Eldar, Necrons etc) it did fit (ish) Battle Fleet Gothic. Nice models, cool setting, good idia, bad execution .

[nikharwood]

Yep - good point, BFG was the one Specialist Game release that I never enjoyed.

[Luddite]

Interesting. 

I liked BFG, although i agree the rules were a bit of a mess. 

Aeronautica Imperialis downscales the fleet actions and makes for a pretty nice 'dogfight' game.


Personally i think GW's peripheral ('Specialist') games are generally superior to their core rules.  Its such a shame they don't support the Specialist games. 

Sure for most of them the figure sales volumns would be low but for some they could crank things up a bit.  Legends of the Old West massed battle rules for example show how 40k (or even WFB) could be run with a decent set of rules - if only they'd embrace the fact thet 40k is a large skirmish (tactical scale) game, rather than pretending its some sort of company-scale thing.

Either that or head off into supporting their historical rules (WAB, WMA, etc.) with figures.  They won't do this of course as they'd have to compete with proper figures supply companies like Pendraken.