Early wips of Ancient Spanish

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Just don't mention this too half the football fans in Glasgow!!
and the Rangers fans can keep laughing!!
Might also be worth mentioning ttat where we loose the term historically, we have gained it in a geographic and geological sense, the Celtic Sea, the area of water south of Eire, encompassing the area of the Atlantic that borders the English Channel, The Irish Sea and the Bay of Bisquay and one of my best mates's phd studies! It was only formed in the last ice ages, so relatively modern event, while the isles of scilly were one land mass!

[Techno]

Something that's always puzzled me is....
Why is Glasgow Celtic pronounced 'Sell-tick' and not Kell-tick.
Or is it Kelltick north of the border ?
Cheers - Phil

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

From Wiki -

Pronunciation of Celtic.
The initial consonant of the English words Celt and Celtic can be realised either as /k/ or /s/ (that is, either hard or soft ⟨c⟩), both variants being recognised as "correct" in prescriptive usage by modern dictionaries.[9]
The English word originates in the 17th century, taken from the Celtæ of classical Latin. Until the mid 19th century, the sole pronunciation in English was /selt/ in keeping of the treatment of the letter ⟨c⟩ inherited by Middle English from Old French and Late Latin. Beginning in the mid 19th century, Celtic revivalist and nationalist publications advocated imitating the pronunciation of classical Latin in the time of Julius Caesar, when Latin Celtæ was pronounced /keltai/. An early example of this is a short article in a November 1857 issue of 'The Celt', a publication of the Irish Celtic Union.
"Of all the nations that have hitherto lived on the face of the earth, the English have the worst mode of pronouncing learned languages. This is admitted by the whole human race [...] This poor meagre sordid language resembles nothing so much as the hissing of serpents or geese. [...] The distinction which English writers are too stupid to notice, but which the Irish Grammarians are perpetually talking of, the distinction between broad and narrow vowelsâ€"governs the English language. [...] If we follow the unwritten law of the English we shall pronounce (Celt) Selt but Cæsar would pronounce it, Kaylt. Thus the reader may take which pronunciation he pleases. He may follow the rule of the Latin or the rule of the English language, and in either case be right."[10]
A guide to English pronunciation for Welsh speakers published in 1861 gives the alternative pronunciations "sel´tik, kel´tik" for the adjective Celtic.[11]
The pronunciation with /s/ remained standard throughout the 19th to early 20th century, but the variant with /k/ seems to have gained ground during the later 20th century, especially among "students of Celtic culture".[12] On the other hand, the /s/ pronunciation remains the most recognised form when it occurs in the names of sports teams, most notably Celtic Football Club and the Boston Celtics basketball team.
The corresponding words in French are pronounced with /s/, and English Celtic was formed in imitation of French celtique. The corresponding German terms are Kelten and keltisch, not only pronounced as /k/ but even spelled with ⟨k⟩. This is a regular German treatment of names in Greek kappa, also observed in cases such Cimbri, Cimmerians, Cambyses, etc.[13] These spellings with ⟨k⟩ arise in the later 18th century. From the 16th to the early 18th century, the prevalent spelling in German was celtisch.[14]
The celt, a stone tool, has a completely separate etymology from Celt and Celtic. In English its sole pronunciation is /ˈsɛlt/.

[Techno]

Ahhhhh !

Ta - Phil.

[O Dinas Powys]

[thread derailment]

Actually the 'Celts' never existed, and the concept of 'Celtic' art or culture is invalid.

There never was a 'pan-European Celtic culture' traditionally expressed as such things as the 'La Tene' or Halstatt' cultures.

Its a complete myth.  

The modern idea of a 'Celtic fringe' to Europe is also a modern myth, or rather a modern reactionary political 'cultural movement' that has led to things like the Welsh and Scottish Assemblies (although Mel Gibson's dreadful 'Braveheart' movie had a lot to do with the Scots thinking they have some sort of national past).

Which is why this stuff still matters of course, because people today use history for current purposes.

As i said above the only legitimate use of the term 'Celt' is as part of the Celtiberian tribal name.

[/thread derailment]

Just to continue the threadjack!

By coincidence I was listening to an old "In Our Time" about just this subject the other afternoon.  Ok, so the episode is a decade old, but some of the ideas are definitely pertinent!  There was also an episode about Druids last week, haven't caught up with that one yet though.

If you're not familiar with In Our Time, it's a Radio 4 discussion program hosted by Melvin Bragg, homepage here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl
The BBC have recently made every episode recorded available, so the archives are well worth a browse.

The episode on The Celts can be accessed/downloaded from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/ioth/all  dated Thu, 21 Feb 02.  Search for Celt on the page.

Druids here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/iot

Cheers!

Meirion

[Techno]

It's all interesting Meirion.
And thanks Sean...I'd missed that one !
Cheers - Phil.

[Phobos]

Hi Phobos.
If these are on Leon's intended list for this range, I'll be using the reference(s) from Duncan Head's tome 'Armies of the Macedonian & Punic Wars.'
There's a nice (hopefully as accurate as can be surmised) line drawing done by Ian Heath which I intend to use as inspiration.
Cheers - Phil.

Found that book on scribd, and it´s awesome. Any idea on where to purchase it? I find it on amazon, but the sellers didn´t made orders to Europe =(

[Techno]

Sorry Phobos.

Clibby lent me his copy, and I managed to find a second hand version for myself.
Do any of the sellers that are linked through Amazon send to mainland Europe ?....
Maybe you've found that out already that the answer's 'No'
I think it's out of print (at least at the moment.)
Probably the only answer is to have a good 'surf'.....Unless anyone else knows different ??
Cheers - Phil.

[Phobos]

I found it in Caliver Books, BUT, the version of Phil Barker and at 54 Euros... not for me.

I´ll keep searching for it.

PS: Any new pic of the miniatures?
I suppose that a new heavy/light cavalry is on the workbench too?

[Techno]

I found it in Caliver Books, BUT, the version of Phil Barker and at 54 Euros... not for me.

OUCH !!

PS: Any new pic of the miniatures?
I suppose that a new heavy/light cavalry is on the workbench too?

More pics in a couple of days of so, with luck !
And yes.....The two 'groups' of cavalry are already on the go.

Cheers - Phil.

[Phobos]

Is intended to be a celtiberian cavalry, an iberian cavalry, and a lusitanian cavalry too, or only one type "generic"?

[Mexican Dave]

Try this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WRG-Armies-of-the-Macedonian-Punic-Wars-359BC-146BC-/310459891642?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4848d9ffba

[Techno]

Well found Dave...
Hope Phobos spots that quickly !

Phobos.
At the moment I'd regard the cavalry that are 'on my list' to be  relatively generic.

Cheers - Phil

[Phobos]

Thanks a lot Mexican Dave!!! (strangely, I search yesterday on ebay and didn´t find this)

About the cavalry, maybe with a variation in headgear it cover all the hispanic tribes.

[Techno]

Some photo's of the wips.





Hopefully....The top two rows are all but finished, apart from a little cleaning up and maybe a couple of little tweaks.
Top pic L/R..Standard bearer/Musician/'General' Caetratus x 2
Middle L/R....Lusitanian infantry x 2...Iberian Scutarii x 2


Bottom row....Intended to be.....Celtiberian Scutarii x 2....These guys need cloaks and some plumes on the helms...plus the spears of course.
What I'm not sure about are the shapes of the shields !!
I've seen some other models that seem to have what I could describe as this 'coffin lid' shape....Others where the sides are more rounded, rather than having a defined angle on the sides.....Let me know what you all think about this !
Next to the Scutarii are members of a Celtiberian warband....I may 'plume' one of these or leave then both 'plain'.

Comments/help welcome as usual.

I've not got far enough with the cavalry to really make it worth while showing....Only one of the 'lighter' cavalry is anywhere near completion.

Cheers - Phil.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Looking great thus far Techno! I'll have a proper look later when I get home. 

[Luddite]

Stunning as ever Techno.

Celtiberian shields on a Roman coin



Iberians in Carthaginian service



Spanish 'scutarius'

[Squirrel]

Mouth wateringly good Phil

I'd say leave the  Celtiberian warband figs in the last photo as they are with plain helm please.

Cheers,

Kev

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

These look great Techno.
Just as a matter of personal preference, I'd say chap on 2nd left on the middle shelf, waving javelin, could he be reposed to 'thrusting' over shield?
Never that keen on 'waving pole about' poses, unless it's a standard or something (and I'm sure the guy standing to his left would thank him for it)??

[Phobos]

These look great Techno.
Just as a matter of personal preference, I'd say chap on 2nd left on the middle shelf, waving javelin, could he be reposed to 'thrusting' over shield?
Never that keen on 'waving pole about' poses, unless it's a standard or something (and I'm sure the guy standing to his left would thank him for it)??

Support this.