Rules for the WSS

[Chad]

I have tried various rules but never been entirely happy with the result, so I am going to have a go at writing my own. I wrote some in the 70s but resources were not as good as they are now.

My plan is to put ideas for each element of the rules on paper and would be interested to know if any member with interest in the WSS would like to review my ideas and offer opinions, criticisms and their own ideas.

The first stage will be game scale.

Chad

[Hwiccee]

I would be happy to help but I should say I also have various WSS rules on the go - basically for different sizes of battles.

Which rules did you do in the 70's?

[Chad]

If I recall it they were called 'Warfare in the Age of Marlborough' published under the name of Drillbook Publications. Don't think many copies were sold though.

Chad

[Hwiccee]

Ah I think I have/had these, although whether I still do or where they are in my mountain of written stuff is another matter. If I am right I think they were from an online site -

Drillbook Publications

1) The Age of Marlborough — European Warfare 1700-1720. Distributed by Micro-Mold c.1975.

I am afraid I don't actually remember playing them though I suspect because I doubt I actually had a Marlburian army at that time, just the interest in the period.

Like you I found existing rules unsatisfactory, mainly because they are based on out dated ideas of the period/the authors have no idea about the period. But as you say there is now a lot more information out there and coming out over the next few years. So I set out to do sets to reflect the new ideas beginning to emerge.

In any case I am happy to help if I can. What kind of scale of game are you going to be aiming at? I mean here roughly how many real men will a battle represent?

[jambo1]

Interesting Chad, I have a good interest in the WSS and have a few rulesets myself, been busy building armies and not really playing games!

[mollinary]

I am certainly interested, have both armies for Blenheim based for V&B, on a one base equals two battalions ratio. Happy to help, if I can.

Mollinary

[Chad]

Hwiccee

Scale
Not sure yet, but my basic idea is a set of rules that can be played to completion in 3-4 hours on a 6x4 table. I have always been lucky in having available a large table that can be left set-up, but I think the majority of gamers meet once per week at best and need to finish it in that time frame. Having said that I don't see any reason why they could not incorporate options for similar gaming conditions I have enjoyed.

My initial intentions are to calculate the frontage of some of the battlefields for which I have scaled maps and work back from there. On that point I only have scaled maps for Marlborough's battles.

I am at the moment merely making notes as ideas pop into my head. I am also looking at game mechanics from other rules that may be useful so that I do not have to entirely reinvent the wheel. As I indicated at the start I will simply present my thoughts and ideas for comment, etc. and go from there.

I am no expert and while I do have many books, they are all secondary sources in English, so not sure if this will be sufficient. I am interested in capturing something of the feel of the period rather than any claim to simulation or strict accuracy, after all enjoyment of the game is the thing.

Chad

[Chad]

Jambo/Mollinary

Thanks. The V&B basing is interesting.

Chad

[mollinary]

Hi Chad,

I chose that scale when V&B were experimenting with different scales prior to releasing "The Road to Glory" rules.  Much of the painting was done when I was down in Sarajevo, but the whole lot have only seen a table once in twenty years!  Ramillies is a great battle to start with, if only from the colour point of view - a large part of the "French" army is Swiss, German, Bavarian, Cologne, Spanish, Italiian, Irish, so it is a real colour fest.  Also the two armies are pretty closely matched.

Mollinary

[Hwiccee]

Hwiccee

Scale
Not sure yet, but my basic idea is a set of rules that can be played to completion in 3-4 hours on a 6x4 table. I have always been lucky in having available a large table that can be left set-up, but I think the majority of gamers meet once per week at best and need to finish it in that time frame. Having said that I don't see any reason why they could not incorporate options for similar gaming conditions I have enjoyed.

My initial intentions are to calculate the frontage of some of the battlefields for which I have scaled maps and work back from there. On that point I only have scaled maps for Marlborough's battles.

OK yes I agree most people play a 3-4 hour battle on a 6 by 4 table. I was asking what scale of battle you were expecting to play on this - i.e. a major battle like Blenheim or a small action like one or two brigades per side. I take it from the above that you are aiming to do large battles like the big 4?

Assuming you are then you will be looking at units being something like a brigade. In the rules I did for these kinds of battles it would be units representing about 2000 infantry/1000 cavalry with an on table frontage of 8 cm per unit. Obvious you can jiggle that a bit but that kind of scale will allow Blenheim, Ramillies and Oudernaarde to be done on 6 by 4 (Malplaquet might need a bit more as I haven't done that yet).

But I would also bear in mind that most of the other battles in the war are a lot smaller than the big 4 battles.

I am at the moment merely making notes as ideas pop into my head. I am also looking at game mechanics from other rules that may be useful so that I do not have to entirely reinvent the wheel. As I indicated at the start I will simply present my thoughts and ideas for comment, etc. and go from there.

Sounds like a plan.

I am no expert and while I do have many books, they are all secondary sources in English, so not sure if this will be sufficient. I am interested in capturing something of the feel of the period rather than any claim to simulation or strict accuracy, after all enjoyment of the game is the thing.

Chad

On the sources I have lots of material on the period/war, including lots of obscure English stuff and non English stuff. Unfortunately most of it tends to show the usual English sorces are totally wrong - so you might have to choose between reality and 'what every one knows'.

I agree on the enjoyment of the game being the thing but for me that means it has to be something like the period and unfortunately ones I have come across are not.

In any case I will help if I can.

[Chad]

If wargamers want to recreate any of the big battles, then I would probably agree that brigade bases is one way to go. The difficulty I sometimes have is what do these bases look like on the table. The period is essentially linear and if you lose that appearance on the table, then personally feel the game has lost something. For example, 2 square bases to represent a brigade in the SYW simply does not ring my bell!

There is also the question of whether wargamers want to re-create actual battles or simply play a game that has the feel of a battle during this war. I would like to try and achieve both.

One option for recreation would be the half size battle. I think Blenheim has a 4 mile frontage, so you would recreate it on the table on a scaled 2 mile frontage. You would have the same terrain, the same mix of units, but half the number of units. I have not done any work on this, but it would perhaps bring figure scale and basing down to a more manageable level and achieve the appearance I look for.

Another option is to game segments of the battles. Again this would give more flexibility for basing and figure scale. Hopefully either or both these options would also permit just a game for the period without it being a re-creation.

Re your final comment on sources. This is just what I was hoping would happen by putting this out there and is why I would be grateful for any help and constructive criticism of my ideas.

As a final note, my present thinking towards Command and Control is 'old school'. No command radii, but figures as ADCs having to be moved to transmit orders.

Look forward to further input.

Many thanks

Chad

[Hwiccee]

If wargamers want to recreate any of the big battles, then I would probably agree that brigade bases is one way to go. The difficulty I sometimes have is what do these bases look like on the table. The period is essentially linear and if you lose that appearance on the table, then personally feel the game has lost something. For example, 2 square bases to represent a brigade in the SYW simply does not ring my bell!

I agree on square bases, I think you have to be linear for this period (the WSS) although not necessarily for the SYW. The two eras are quite different in many ways including this.

There is also the question of whether wargamers want to re-create actual battles or simply play a game that has the feel of a battle during this war. I would like to try and achieve both.

I would say I wouldn't see the 2 as different things as such but I am assuming that you mean a historical re-fight or a pick up game.

Clearly some people will want to do re-fights and others just 'pick up' games, while others will want both. Personally I think re-fights are easier as you don't need army lists, point system or similar, terrain generation systems and all the distortions these bring.

But I guess that how you want to go depends on what you are aiming at? What I mean is this for your personal use or for some kind of commercial or widely available set.

One option for recreation would be the half size battle. I think Blenheim has a 4 mile frontage, so you would recreate it on the table on a scaled 2 mile frontage. You would have the same terrain, the same mix of units, but half the number of units. I have not done any work on this, but it would perhaps bring figure scale and basing down to a more manageable level and achieve the appearance I look for.

Scaling down can work but also brings problems - it depends a lot on how exactly you are thinking of doing it. I am not sure what you mean by "bring figure scale and basing down to a more manageable level" so it is difficult to comment further. So I think the best is to just give some info on which might help.

Blenheim is about 40 brigades of the size I mentioned per side and not counting artillery, it obviously depends a little on various factors. The big four battles get progressively larger and the Confederates have circa 80+ brigades at the last, Malplaquet. But remember that the armies always fought in at least 2 lines and for these big battles usually more. For example the front lines are around 15 brigades long at Blenheim.

In contrast most other battles, using the same kind of scale, are 20 brigades or less. For example the largest battles in Spain (Almansa and Almenar) top out at 17 brigades.

Another option is to game segments of the battles. Again this would give more flexibility for basing and figure scale. Hopefully either or both these options would also permit just a game for the period without it being a re-creation.

This would certainly work but it is fundamentally the same as doing the full battle in a way, from the point of view of historical action or 'pick up'. I would guess for this you would have the battalion/a few squadrons or the regiment (2 battalions)/ 4 or so squadrons as a unit.

As a final note, my present thinking towards Command and Control is 'old school'. No command radii, but figures as ADCs having to be moved to transmit orders.

Personally I don't think it matters how the C & C is done, just that it works something like it did historically.

All the best,


Nick

[Chad]

Nick

Thanks.

I will give it some more thought for a few days and try to get a clearer view of what I am trying to achieve.

Best

Pete

[Chad]

Nick

Have been thinking about your brigade base. Can I ask a few questions?

1. What ground scale does that represent?
2. Given that brigades can range from 2-6 battalions, am I correct in assuming this is a game mechanism rather than representation of actual brigades?
3. What depth is the base?

I am thinking that by using a sabot, it could be possible to achieve both a small scale pick-up game with the option to scale up to a larger re-play of an actual battle.

Will try and put my ideas on Command and Control in writing over the weekend.

Best

Pete

[Hwiccee]

Hi Pete,


First I should say I was just using the brigade base idea as this is convenient for me as this is what I used in my large battle rules. I am working on these for publication later in the year and I have scenarios for this sitting here, etc. So it is easy and convenient for me to use when helping you.

In these rules I use the idea of everything being measured in base widths (BW's). Infantry/cavalry units are 2 bases. The movement distances, firing ranges, etc are all in terms of BW and the player decides what the BW will be for there game - i.e. how they have based there figures.

Nick

Have been thinking about your brigade base. Can I ask a few questions?

1. What ground scale does that represent?

A base width is 300 metres so a brigade is about 600 metres.

I actually use 6cm (so a brigade is 12cm frontage) as my BW as I am not restricted to just a 6 foot table - so Blenheim needs an 8 foot table, Ramillies 9 foot. I suggested 4 cm (8 cm brigade frontage) as this should allow you to do Blenheim/Ramilles on a 6 foot table. So in that scale 4 cm = 300 metres - 1 cm = 75 m.

2. Given that brigades can range from 2-6 battalions, am I correct in assuming this is a game mechanism rather than representation of actual brigades?

Oh yes this is a game mechanism. There was no standardization on numbers of battalions per brigade (you get even more than 6 sometimes) nor of the size of the battalions within a brigade. As I think I mentioned a base is usually (you can have some other sizes) 2000 infantry/ 1000 cavalry in my rules but again I only used that as it was easy for me to do & you could pick any number. In any the number of battalions/squadrons represented varies depending on the size of the battalions. So for example British battalions were usually something like 600 men in the field in Marlborough's army. But in Spain/Portugal they were lucky to have 400 men and 10 British battalions might be 3 'brigades' in Flanders but only 2 in Spain.

3. What depth is the base?

Again I use the idea of base widths here but base depth is not that important so you can be flexible. So I use a base depth of half whatever you use for the base width. So if you go with the suggestion I made the depth would be 2cm, so a brigade would be 8cm by 2cm. But you could go with any depth, the frontage is the important bit.

I am thinking that by using a sabot, it could be possible to achieve both a small scale pick-up game with the option to scale up to a larger re-play of an actual battle.

Yes this is a good idea. As mentioned I use 6cm base width (2 per brigade). This was so I could use the same bases as 1 base = 1 battalion for another set of rules. I have a single base with 12 infantry/6 cavalry on but I think I made a mistake here. Other members of my gaming group used the idea you mention (we didn't find sabot bases necessary). They used bases of 2cm frontage but in 'units' of 3 bases. So basically you use 6 of these for the large battles game and 3 for the other game I mention - they also used more figures per unit which is also better in my view. This works well and when I get round to it I will re-base my stuff like that.

Will try and put my ideas on Command and Control in writing over the weekend.

OK I look forward to it


Nick