ACW 10mm NOT 6mm!

[getagrip]

I have one regular gaming buddy and we recently decided to get into ACW (having mainly been fantasy players).

I argued for 6mm (bigger battles etc. etc.) but he won the day and insisted on 10mm (I really didn't take too much convincing).

So:

I need two starter armies which could represent your "average" ACW battle (we aren't "history" boys who research every tiny detail).

If I had £50 for each army (and I do, get the burners ready Leon ), what should I buy for each force?

Thanks guys

[Last Hussar]

Lots of infantry.  Depending on rules/basing/Orbat will affect the ratio of guns, but starting with 9 bags of infantry (£40.50 - 270 men- inc 1-2 bags of command) some officers, with the rest in cannon, would be a good base.  Exact amount of command needed again varies with rules, but you can leave cavalry till later if you want- you need a good strong core of infantry.

Edit after thinking during making tea.

Inch base (F&F/TCHAE) - 6-7ish per base.  About 40 bases.  That will do a TCHAE scenario (regiments), but is small for F&F (brigades)

[Fenton]

Lots of infantry.  Depending on rules/basing/Orbat will affect the ratio of guns, but starting with 9 bags of infantry (£40.50 - 270 men- inc 1-2 bags of command) some officers, with the rest in cannon, would be a good base.  Exact amount of command needed again varies with rules, but you can leave cavalry till later if you want- you need a good strong core of infantry.

What he said

[getagrip]

Thanks guys,  how many cannon would I need for 270 infantry?

[Fenton]

Depends on rules and/or scenario Gareth

[cbr3d.com]

At £50 an army it would be worth starting with an Army Pack of each (£28) which will give 120 x mixed foot, 30 x command, 15 x cavalry and 3 guns with crew (7 packs that would normally cost you £31.50), then bulk out with another 4 packs of infantry (£18) and one of command (£2.30) plus a mounted staff Officers pack (£1.50) and a General (£0.70), this would bring the total to £50.50

Just my 2 pennyworth (but please note people normally ask me for change from that.    )

[Ithoriel]

In theory a Union battery consisted of 6 guns arranged as 3 sections each of two guns. 5 batteries formed a Union artillery brigade which would be attached to a corps. The Army of the Potomac, as an example, also had 5 artillery brigades as an army artillery reserve.

Confederate batteries were usually of 4 guns and brigades only had 4 batteries.

Confederate forces had fewer guns, of smaller calibre, than their Union equivalents by and large.

As much as 50% of Confederate artillery pieces may be captured Union guns.

It was said that an army of Union artillery and Confederate infantry would be a force no one could stand against!

Also, I agree with Fig.ht.

[petercooman]

As others have said, the army packs are a good start or each force!

I decided to make my forces 'mirrored' so i have a good equal choice of troops for each side.

HAve you already decide wich rules you will be using? I have spent about the same amount on my armies, and i use warmaster basing for them (40x20, 3 bases to a unit).

[getagrip]

Rules: undecided although Peter Pig are a front runner.

Aren't the army packs the "old " range?

[Ithoriel]

Union Army - New Range

Confederate Army - New Range

[petercooman]

An example of the army packs:

This is about half an army pack, when the pack is completed, i will have double the amount of infantry bases, 2 more bases of cavalry, and another cannon. only thing bought separately are the bases, the flags and the mounted officer on the hq stand and a pack of casualties to add on the bases where i want.
This is with 8 models per base. You could get more bases with 6 on a smaller base, but my original plan was to do ACWarmaster, so i got 8 on 40x20. I changed rules but kept the basing.

[Westmarcher]

Confederate batteries were usually of 4 guns and brigades only had 4 batteries.

Just to clarify. Do you mean artillery brigades, Ithoriel? I'm thinking off-hand it would be 4 batteries (16 guns) per Infantry Division?

Anyhoo, Grip. Somewhat belatedly, my take is as follows (new posts keep arriving while I type!). Basically, you need infantry and artillery. Forget cavalry initially (not a major contributor in most big ACW battles) and add them later. More smooth bore artillery than rifled pieces for the Rebs - Union about 50/50 guys? Yes, Union had loads of artillery but did not use it all at once and, as stated above, kept batteries in reserve (either committing later in the battle or rotating with units in action - I think). So no need to have too much more model guns than Rebs for wargaming purposes. For rules, although I have war specific rules (Fire & Fury and They Couldn't Hit An Elephant) but tend to use the wider era rules, Black Powder and Field of Battle.  Sorry, Grip, I've got 15mm minis for ACW (based for F&F). I have 1 inch square bases for my 10mm SYW (Foot figs arranged 4 x 2) so would guess same size would accommodate 6 Pendraken ACW minis easily.

[Ithoriel]

Just to clarify. Do you mean artillery brigades, Ithoriel? I'm thinking off-hand it would be 4 batteries (16 guns) per Infantry Division?

Yes, so a Union brigade has 30 guns per artillery brigade to the CSAs 16 guns per artillery brigade.

CSA forces were often outgunned in artillery but tended to have better infantry because of the way they handled reinforcements. The Union formed new units and let old ones dwindle while the CSA beefed up existing units so new recruits learned from the vets - good habits and bad no doubt!

Rock, paper, shotgun

[getagrip]

Okay,  so in my head I thought someone would say: buy this,  this and this.

How naive was that?

[cbr3d.com]

Okay,  so in my head I thought someone would say: buy this,  this and this.

How naive was that?

Well:

Union

1 x Union Army Pack (New)
1 x ACW13 Union Foot Command
1 x ACW36 Mounted Staff Officers (5 figures)
1 x Mounted General (of choice)

Any 4 packs from

ACW1, ACW2, ACW3, ACW4, ACW5, ACW6

Confederate

1 x Confederate Army Pack (New)
1 x ACW15 Confederate Foot Command
1 x ACW36 Mounted Staff Officers (5 figures)
1 x Mounted General (of choice)

Any 4 packs from

ACW7, ACW8, ACW9, ACW10, ACW11, ACW12

These will give an infantry heavy force with artillery and a small cavalry unit along with all command options including a General. 

Unlike some posters I think having the cavalry actually makes sense, these can be used as scouts, fast flanking manouveres, and of course can attack the guns with speed, but as said previously this is just my opinion, so probably not worth mush.

Choose the extra infantry packs from how you wish to display your forces, some packs are marching, some advancing, some firing.  The pictures can be found here:  http://pendraken.co.uk/19th-Century-c15/NEW-American-Civil-War-NEW-sc281/

Hope this helps.

[getagrip]

Cheers Fight

Which artillery is the Union "standard" so to speak? 

[getagrip]

Update :

Made my first historical PD purchase and will soon be the proud owner of a Union army 

[Ithoriel]

The 12lb "Napoleon" was the most widely used smoothbore and the 3" Ordnance the most widely used rifled field piece. This applies to both sides. Union would tend to have more of the latter, CSA more of the former.

The Napoleons were largely bronze guns, the 3"-ers iron.

[Last Hussar]

Okay,  so in my head I thought someone would say: buy this,  this and this.

How naive was that?

That bit when I said 'lots of infantry' 

I've got the Peter Pig ACW rules - enjoyed them but haven't played them in years - its that thing you end up playing a set of rules, and going back to a different set is hassle.

The PP ones are unit = Brigade.  I've got some army lists I worked up when I was playing the game, and I'd say you need 50-60 bases of infantry, and about 4-6 artillery bases (1 base = battery).

Artillery is the biggest kludge of Horse and Musket games - people tend to use 1 base = 1 battery, but that doesn't really represent the frontage of a battery, which could be up to 60 yards wide.  Or a lot narrower, depending on situation.  You have 30-40 men with guns taking up the same frontage as 200-300 double ranked infantry.  This is why you haven't got a clear answer on 'how many guns': it depends on your rules.

My personal recommendation for basing infantry would be 30mm square.  PP ACW is 30mm, F&F is 1 1/8th inches (by 7/8ths - nope, no idea why Americans feel the need to do that) which is 29mm ish frontage, TFL 'Elephant' rules are inch squares (so 30mm isn't too bad).  Black Powder, if played reading CM for inches gives a regiment as 10-12cm- 3-4 bases, or played straight as per the book is 24cm-27cm - 8 bases.  I find 30mm the most flexible for multiple rules, plus the trays for Really Useful Boxes have 60mm compartments!

How many on a base is very much personal choice and interpretation of period: were they a little looser than Napoleonics, as some suggest because of rifled muskets, or were they elbow to elbow?  I'd say close order - that puts a frontage of 4 men, with 2-4 behind in a second rank (or even fallen back reloading etc in a 4-2-1 type of thing).  Also miniatures are on your side here. If someone says your units are too tight order, invite them to do the maths based on figure scale.  "10mm" is approximately 150-160th, depending where on the figure you measure to.  That makes a 30mm base about 4m50 to 4m80 across - about 15 feet, a little under 4 foot a man (assume spacing continues across bases) - That is basically people standing in 'T-pose' with fingertips touching! 

Your unit 'command' stands you can make a little looser so you can see the figures. (Purists/re-enactors will say no drummers at the front, and no unfurled flags- flags in the wind are tricky.  To them I say Bugger Off - I want pretty).

So - about 4 bases per bag: you'll end up with a spare base per 9-11 budgeted for.  Artillery- depends on rules, we can't be more helpful than that I'm afraid.  Cavalry, oh if you really must, but make sure you have enough infantry first ('Enough infantry' for ACW is always 20 quids worth more than you have.  'What do you want for your ACW army' varies, 'What do you need' is always more infantry.  Have I mentioned you need a good strong core of infantry?  One last point - you should probably buy more infantry.)

[petercooman]

Just a quick note,if you would like double standard bearers in your units, don't forget to order extra command! I kept mine generic with only the union flag, but many like to have both.

I just don't like going too specific, so everything can represent anything, if you know what i mean