Scenario questions

[Amra]

Hi All,

We are really enjoying working thru all the scenarios,but have a couple of questions.

In Scenario 5 & 6, what is meant by "occupy" ?
Page 57 just talks about what's needed for capturing a specific objective, rather than what's meant by "occupy"

Scenario 7 , the defender tries to "exit 50% of their units" , am I right in assuming this is all units ? So soft skinned ,FAO ,Commands etc ?

Thanks

[Amra]

Any ideas anyone ?

[Big Insect]

Hi there
Scenario 5 & 6:
'Occupy' means that you must have at least 1 unit (that qualifies for Breakpoint purposes, and is not a Recce, Command or Sniper unit) wholly on the Objective that is not Suppressed (& obviously is not KO'd).
*NB: if you are using the Rear Line Special Characteristic designation - no Rear Line Designated troops can count as being an 'Occupying' unit.
But there must be no Enemy units (even if they are Suppressed) on that same Objective to count it as Occupied.

Scenario 7:
This means all units - with the exception of any Command Units, Recce units (except Recce Support units which do count) and Sniper units, that do not count. So Soft-Skins etc do count.
This is potentially up for abuse as you can buy a lot of trucks (cheaply) which can exit the table leaving all their infantry passengers behind to perish !!! So you will need to watch that one     

Hope that helps?
Cheers
Mark

[Amra]

Thanks,
So to get a minor objective in ,say scenario 6, the attacker needs one unit in the centre third and no defender units there ? That seems..unlikely ,the area is 6' wide
These are scenarios where you occupy a sector rather than occupy an objective. Do the same occupy rules apply ?

[Big Insect]

Hi Amra
This question may have been asked previously (recently) on another thread elsewhere on the forum?

I corrected my comment there, by stating that you need at least 3 infantry and a command unit (CO or HQ) in the objective area and no enemy units (of a similar type) that are unsuppressed.

Yes, the area is 6 feet wide, but you have only 8 game turns to win the game - and depending upon the terrain, this is actually quite hard. Especially as the attacker moves 1st - so in effect the odds are actually in the defenders favour, as usually (in an attack-defend scenario) the attacker needs 3 x the troops of the defender (which is the case in Scenario 6). The defender has room to deploy forward - at the half-way line - so in effect the attacker is under fire almost immediately they deploy on-table.

This is a longstanding scenario and seems to work (from my own playing of it, and that of others).
Worth giving it a play-test and see how you get on.

[petedavies]

I have a question about the requirement that, to count as occupying an objective, "...there must be no Enemy units (even if they are Suppressed) on that same Objective to count it as Occupied."

I don't see this listed in my rulebooks (e.g. p57 of BKCIV).

Is this somewhere in the book(s) that I missed (that is usually the explanation!) or is it errata? Or just generally agreed as "common-sense"?

Cheers!

Pete

[Big Insect]

For clarity Suppressed enemy units don't count as contesting an Objective, in the same way that they don't count for the friendly side to claim the Objective.

It may not state that specifically in the rules - but we can add that to the Errata.
As you say it is to a certain extent common sense, but I'm happy to make a ruling to make that clearer.

The intention is to make the Scenarios 'winnable' for both players.

Thanks
Mark

[petedavies]

Thanks for the clarification Mark.

FWIW I would appreciate seeing this in the "official" errata (just my engineer's OCD to have everything written down, fair and square, with no contradictions  )

Cheers!

Pete

[Big Insect]

We'll see what we can sort out Pete ... I think there are probably a few of these types of clarification that have come out since the Post-launch errata was produced.

It is interesting that this question appears to have not been asked previously, as looking back right the way to BKCI there appears to have been no clear definition on what 'occupied' or 'contested' really means. We can correct that in CWCII for starters.
Maybe very few players actually play scenario games. Now that would be an interesting poll to run 

Cheers
Mark 

[Amra]

We love the scenarios and are working thru them all, expect more questions! 

OK,let's see if I understand 

So in scenario 5, the attackers minor objective is to occupy the third of the table nearest the defender.

To do so he must have 3 infantry and one Command in that third when his opponent has no unsurpressed  units in his own deployment area
Scenario 6 is similar

If that's right , I still think that's almost impossible

So ,there's no difference in requirements between occupying an objective ( as in scenario 4) and occupying a third of the table ?(scenarios 5 & 6)

[Big Insect]

As I understand the original intention of the Scenarios - yes.

If you are prepared to do a few play-tests on that basis and publish the results, that would be very useful.
We have played the Scenarios a lot previously and never had any issues.
We tend to find that it is not unusual for the Attacker to be broken by the Defender, with the defender winning their games more often that way. The Attackers often wins by either breaking the Defender or driving them out of the Occupied area.
Contested results for both parties are uncommon, due to the limited game moves - although most of our Scenario games (from memory) rarely reach the higher move thresholds.

It does also depend greatly upon the terrain. If you have a lot of terrain - especially BUAs or woods - you will more likely end up with a contested scenario. Terrain placement is always a tricky part of any game - unless you are working to 'real-world' maps or as part of an ongoing campaign.

[Amra]

Thanks I'll let you know how we go

On breaking the opponents army,ie he fails his test after reaching break point , the game ends but it doesn't appear to give you any victory points?

Victory points seem to only come from objectives and enemy losses , not from him breaking   Have I got that right ?

[Big Insect]

No - if either player's force breaks (due to a command moral roll or is totally destroyed) then the scenario is deemed to be over and it is a major victory to the remaining force.

I suppose you could play it that the remaining player has to still occupy the terrain or board objective - and there is always the possibility that if they fail their Command rolls they might not get the troops into position, or that they might not have the right troops left to achieve the required result. But it's a pretty dull game for the other player   

[Amra]

Perfect ,that's how we play it
Is that in the rules any where ? I couldnt see it in the victory conditions....

[Big Insect]

No - I think it has always just been 'assumed' to be the case.
We will formalise it in CWCII and add to the Errata update on BKCIV

Thanks