Perfect battle?

Started by Luddite, 16 July 2013, 09:20:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Luddite

Before WWI there was a strong belief in the 'glory of war'; that war could be glorious, even artistic.  The mechanisation of killing that came to fruition across No Man's Land put an end to those notions.

However, it occurs to me that, while not glorious, a dispassionate view can see some battles were 'perfect', or near-perfect.

What do I mean?  I mean that when we study some battles they are a perfect model for their form.  So I thought it might be interesting to discuss our thoughts on which battles in history might be thought of as 'perfect' and why.

Because the frictions change with technology and tactics, I guess we'll need to split these into period/genre, so I'll put forwards a few ideas.




Battle of Nasby (England 14 June 1645)
Proposed: Perfect example of pike & shot battle
Reason:  Both sides arrayed in the established order for the time, with well matched infantry centre and two well matched cavalry wings.  The battle proceeded according to the tactical doctrines of the time and in both cases, the right cavalry flanks were victorious; the Royalists in an uncontrolled charge that left the field in pursuit, and the Parliamentarians in a disciplined charge that was able to turn in for a decisive second charge on the infantry centre.
The outcome was also significant for the ending of the war.

Tet Offensive (Vietnam 30 January 1968)
Proposed:  Perfect example of surprise attack
Reason:  The US/ARVN forces were totally unprepared and taken completely by surprise by a massive, country-wide series of attacks by the Communist forces of the VC and NVA.  After the initial assaults, the US/ARVN were able to quickly reorganise and counter attack resulting in their tactical victory.  However, the surprise attack won perhaps the most spectacular strategic success in military history.  As a direct result, US policy changed from trying the 'win the war', to 'stabilising the theatre ahead of a ceasefire'.  The surprise attack struck not at the US/ARVN troops on the ground, but into the Oval Office and through TV, into the homes of every American.  As surprise attacks go, does it get better?

Battle of Cannae (Italy 2 August 216BC)
Proposed:  Perfect example of a double envelopment
Reason:  There are a good few examples of this type of battle, even as late as the 19thC British engagements with the Zulus, but I'd suggest that Cannae is the perfect example of the form.  To replicate and enhance their successful tactics at Trebia, the Romans deployed their superior numbers more deeply, giving the Carthaginians a chance to enact the classic double envelopment tactic.  Throughout the battle Hannibal's troops performed perfectly against the Romans.


So what do you reckon?

Perfect ambush?
Perfect sea battle?
Perfect Ancients battle?
Perfect Napoleonic battle?
Perfect tank battle?
Etc.
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Perfect Ambush at sea battle: North Cape Scharnhorst tempted out of her fjord by a nice juicy convoy, ambushed by Duke of York and escorts. 

Perfect Ancients: First Cremona, two evenly balanced legionary forces square off. Only our done by second Cremona, six months later.

You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Ithoriel

Perfect Tank Battle - Prokhorovka surely. Biggest ever tank battle to date (possibly, given the way warfare is progressing, biggest there will ever be), fairly evenly matched forces with quantity balanced by quality, decisive result.
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

ronan

Quote from: Luddite on 16 July 2013, 09:20:20 AM
(...)
Tet Offensive (Vietnam 30 January 1968)(...)
the most spectacular strategic success in military history. 
(...)

mmmh.. I think the Fall Gelb in 1940 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_Gelb was even more strategic, imho.  :-\
For me the perfect battle should be the one were I get the surprise, and overrun the ennemy.  :d

Or I pick up Austerlitz.

fsn

16 July 2013, 05:09:59 PM #4 Last Edit: 16 July 2013, 05:14:04 PM by fsn
Leipzig 1813
Proposed: Perfect example of a defensive battle.
Reason. Horse and musket, very colourful. Reasoanbly successful example of the extraction of an inferior force in from on a vastly superior one.

Bannockburn 1314.
Proposed. Perfect result.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Hertsblue

Leuthen - 5th December 1757

Proposed: Perfect outflanking attack.

Frederick the Great used a small cavalry force to keep the much larger Austrian army concentrating to their front. Meanwhile, using pre-scouted dead ground, he marched the bulk of his army around the enemy's left flank and rolled them up with the perfect oblique attack. One of the textbook battles of all history.
When you realise we're all mad, life makes a lot more sense.

www.rulesdepot.net

Last Hussar

Orne Bridges 00:16 6th June 1944

Text book Airborne Company attack and hold operation.
I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain why you are wrong.

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

GNU PTerry

FierceKitty

Okehazama. Any battle where one knocks over 12-1 odds a virtually identical army gets its gold star on the big wall.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Ithoriel

Quote from: FierceKitty on 14 September 2013, 11:34:53 AM
Okehazama. Any battle where one knocks over 12-1 odds a virtually identical army gets its gold star on the big wall.

25,000 enemy to your 1,500? Hit him from behind, in the rain, while he's drunk, looking the other way and convinced you're defending a position miles away .... works for me :-)

Good call, I'd forgotten all about Okehazama
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

Hertsblue

Quote from: FierceKitty on 14 September 2013, 11:34:53 AM
Okehazama. Any battle where one knocks over 12-1 odds a virtually identical army gets its gold star on the big wall.

Hey, FK. Welcome back! We've missed you.  :-bd :-bd :-bd
When you realise we're all mad, life makes a lot more sense.

www.rulesdepot.net

FierceKitty

And Ottombo. It's got Aztecs - automatic double first.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Duke Speedy of Leighton

FierceKitty don't know that one at all, any details?

Welcome back sir!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

mollinary

FK. Great to see you post again, I was getting really worried.   8)

Mollinary
2021 Painting Competition - 1 x Winner!
2022 Painting Competition - 2 x Runner-Up!

fsn

Nice to see you active again, Mr Kitty.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!