Glad to hear that talks are continuing! I think we all appreciate and understand the complexities of managing such a large collection of different lines.

As I mentioned above, looking at the project as an expansion of the French into the Glory Years, and then providing diverse opponents for them over time, is probably the most realistic way of fitting it into the overall scheme. Also, (according to my lists) the number of packs can easily be cut down to: French, 11 infantry, 4 cavalry; Austrian, 11 infantry, 5 cavalry, Piedmontese, 2 infantry. Both the French and Austrians would need another pair of artillerist packs, and the various artillery pieces (or none, depending on how well the 1809 line filled out the equipment), and some Generals, but that amounts to about max 40 packs total to establish the core, and many of those would be minor variants. The "Glory Years" French would undoubtedly be the biggest sellers, but providing the other unique opponents would help establish the Pendraken line as "one stop shopping" for the period.

Out of curiosity, let's imagine that the line sells at least as well as the League of Augsburg line (another interesting period on the periphery of better-known conflicts), and probably better than the French & Indian War line (20 packs). Would it sell as well as the AWI line, with its enormous pack count? I don't really have a good feeling for the popularity of the AWI, but the French Rev line might be considered a similar opportunity to establish Pendraken in a colorful niche period that could grow in popularity with the right figures available. How many people gamed (or even heard of!) the Carlist Wars before the Perry figures came out? At any rate, comparisons to those H&M lines might be the way to benchmark the situation.

Good luck with figuring it out ... and we are also looking forward to news of the Empire period Napoleonics range!

Cheers,

Christopher

Well, the AWI and LoA lines aren't that useful as comparators as they are being done primarily because I'm interested in the periods and I volunteered to do them; sculptor's interest counts for 1000 bonus points!

Christopher mentions the overlap between the revolution and the glory years. Bearing in mind I'm a neophyte to naps can you explain how much overlap there is; part of the behind the scenes discussion is the need for compatability between the two ranges, as two different sculptors would be at work.

Hi Clib,

I didn't know that about the AWI and LoA lines, but in any case maybe their rate of sales could help provide a benchmark for eventual rate of returns?

In terms of overlap (thinking off the top of my head), artillery equipment will be pretty universal, and also handily immune from differences in sculpting style. 1809 is really a watershed campaign - both the French and all of their enemies have adopted different uniforms than they had previously, although there are exceptions.

For the French, they used the entire spectrum of their gun types in 1809, so everything from the 4/6/8/12lb cannon and the howitzer types  were in use and wouldn't have to be duplicated. At this scale limbers and caissons would also cross over. Early horse artillery were in the "mirliton" type shako and later horse artillery were in a true shako, but they might also be an acceptable overlap. Hussars would probably be another overlap, with differences so minor they would be acceptable in this scale. Dragoons had the same helmet in both periods, the main difference being much longer coat tails in the earlier uniform, but they might also be able to overlap. The Guard and Grenadier infantry types with their bearskins and longer tails are pretty universal to both periods. Generals would also cross over pretty well.

For the Austrians, there is actually a lot of overlap. Like the French, all of their gun types and equipment will cross over. Also, the "helmet" style infantry (in use along side the "shako" style infantry in 1809) actually goes back to 1800, as do the artillerists in bicorne, and the cavalry in helmet too. The Hussars are pretty universal, as are the uhlans, and Jaegers in Corsehut and Grenzers in kobluk. It's only when you go pre-1800 that the old-stule Austrian uniforms become necessary (although they were still in use in 1800) - but unfortunately it effects pretty much all regular infantry and cavalry and artillerists.

So, looking backwards so to speak, adding the "Glory Years" French would actually extend the playability of the 1809 Austrian range all the way back to the 1800 and 1805 campaigns, which is a pretty significant addition. Then, adding the earlier Austrian uniform covers everything earlier.

The Minor States also had uniform changes for the 1809 campaign, although the Bavarian "Rumford" style uniform is probably close enough to be universal, as are the Poles. Many minor states wore Prussian or Austrian style uniforms (like the Piedmontese), so working on them actually starts to fill out the Prussians. For instance, the Piedmontese essentially used Austrian uniforms for all other arms except line infantry, which could be covered by a couple of packs of infantry/command in Prussian style.

If you have a working list for the 1809 project I would be happy to sketch out a series of overlap lists, and perhaps break down the project into more manageable chunks. With the 1809 line already going, I think it might be pretty manageable.

Cheers,

Christopher

The AWI range is one of our most popular lines, really only behind the WW2, Fantasy and maybe SYW, although the SYW is selling very well at the moment.  I'd expect the LofA to be a good seller as well judging by the interest we've had in it, but probably not up to AWI levels.

Quote from: CATenWolde on 28 June 2010, 06:33:51 PM
If you have a working list for the 1809 project I would be happy to sketch out a series of overlap lists, and perhaps break down the project into more manageable chunks. With the 1809 line already going, I think it might be pretty manageable.

I'll send you a PM.

That's actually great to hear about the AWI, and probably a good example of what a talented sculptor can do for an otherwise niche period that has been underdeveloped. The Pendraken AWI line has become one of the standard "go to" references on TMP and elsewhere that I have seen (much like the SYW line). I imagine there are a lot of people like me out there, who wouldn't have really thought of doing the period but are (or will be) pulled in because the line is too tempting.

I know that you have a dominant position in WWII, but the Fantasy surprises me! Are there that many Warmaster players still out there?

At any rate, considering how popular Napoleonics are, let's hope that the 1809 and "standard" Napoleonics do very well for you, even if a bit less than WWII. If the early period Napoleonics can achieve a status like the AWI, or even are just considered like the Minor States in WWII (i.e. part of the big picture that keeps people coming back), that might help gauge effort versus return.

Cheers,

Christopher

I'm expecting the 'standard' Naps to sell very well, it's the one major range that we've been missing for some time.  We were originally looking to get those done, and then work outwards from there to fill in the other areas, but if we can find a method which suits everyone, then we'll see what happens.

There's always been a lot of demand for the Fantasy.  When we first launched the range, many years ago, it was almost half of all our sales, and it seems to have had a bit of a resurgence this year, which is great.  I think maybe we'd grown a bit stale in that area, as we hadn't released anything for it in years, but we've had a few things designed this year, with some more to come, and maybe that's put us back into the mix a bit.

There's some fascinating info & discussion in this thread 

Coolio to see the fantasy ranges as resurgent: for me, having been a long-time Pendraken fan but (so far) resisted the fantasy, I'm looking at them now - both to do some WM (I sold my WM armies - one of my big regrets really), BoFA and dungeoneering...

WW2 - no surprises there then: the PD range is *stunning* - I've got a *lot* of WW2 stuff and am forever wanting more...love it 

The AWI range is beautiful as is the SYW (which I'm working on at the moment) - at some point I'll get round to the AWI too (reading Mark Urban's "Fusiliers" at the moment - if you're doubtful about gaming the AWI, read this - guaranteed to make you drop cash on the line!)

Quote from: nikharwood on 28 June 2010, 09:48:09 PM
Coolio to see the fantasy ranges as resurgent: for me, having been a long-time Pendraken fan but (so far) resisted the fantasy, I'm looking at them now - both to do some WM (I sold my WM armies - one of my big regrets really), BoFA and dungeoneering...

WW2 - no surprises there then: the PD range is *stunning* - I've got a *lot* of WW2 stuff and am forever wanting more...love it 

WW2's the big boy now, so much so that Dave spends all his casting time doing 20th C. orders.  Some good stuff coming in the July releases for the WW2 fans.

Be good to see you getting into the Fantasy as well Nik!

Mate - I've always been into fantasy 

Oh - hang on - you were talking figures...

Quote from: nikharwood on 29 June 2010, 06:29:40 PM
Mate - I've always been into fantasy  

Oh - hang on - you were talking figures...

You haven't seen the July Releases yet!  We've got whips, chains, fluffy dice and some extra large tubs of Nutella!

  What's that old saying?

Sticks & stones may break my bones...but whips & chains excite me. Or something. 

Quote from: nikharwood on 29 June 2010, 06:32:26 PM
What's that old saying?

Sticks & stones may break my bones...but whips & chains excite me. Or something. 

The glory years are actually only 1805 and 1806 - then at 1809 - there is already a decline, but it is the last campaign Napoleon won.

There seems to be quite a lot of interest in the 1805 / 06 campaigns and notably the Russian, Prussian and Austrian Armies for that.

As to the French Revolution versus 1809 I cannot see a big overlap other than for example Austrian infantry of 1800 / 01 with helmets and back packs - which only marginally showed up in the French revolutionary wars at the end of it.

In my view the French Revolutionary period suffers precisely from that aspect of not being taken seriously and that up so far no high quality and extenisve range of figures exists.

Quote from: von Winterfeldt on 30 June 2010, 07:27:37 AM
The glory years are actually only 1805 and 1806 - then at 1809 - there is already a decline, but it is the last campaign Napoleon won.

There seems to be quite a lot of interest in the 1805 / 06 campaigns and notably the Russian, Prussian and Austrian Armies for that.

As to the French Revolution versus 1809 I cannot see a big overlap other than for example Austrian infantry of 1800 / 01 with helmets and back packs - which only marginally showed up in the French revolutionary wars at the end of it.

In my view the French Revolutionary period suffers precisely from that aspect of not being taken seriously and that up so far no high quality and extenisve range of figures exists.

I agree that the Revolutionary period suffers from both high quality and extensive range being available. I like the early period but am holding off building til the range is more complete, but once it is then look out sister!

Finish up those Fantasy releases so Nik can get some relief    He plays solo for crying out loud!!!   

QuoteFinish up those Fantasy releases so Nik can get some relief    He plays solo for crying out loud!!!  

Nothing wrong with that - I'm much more likely to win...not to mention the obligatory "playing-with-myself-and-loving-it" jokes  

LOL - Nik!!!

BTW - your pictures of your painted minis are awesome 

Keep up the great work and I dont remember did you or did you not purchase the Dungeon set? If so, have you been playing with Steve's Dungeon World rules?

Quote from: Blaker on 01 July 2010, 01:47:34 PM
LOL - Nik!!!

BTW - your pictures of your painted minis are awesome 

Keep up the great work and I dont remember did you or did you not purchase the Dungeon set? If so, have you been playing with Steve's Dungeon World rules?

Thank you 

I've not picked up the Dungeon set yet - although the new package will be on my wishlist...I've got a couple of other projects on the go, but work is manic at the moment & I'm off my pace really...the distraction of the World Cup has contributed to this as well of course 

I will be having a bash with Steve's rules  - and others...I still retain a fondness for D&D and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands, anyone? Ah...nostalgia