Hi,

I was talking with Leon yesterday about a few ideas concerning the direction of Pendraken`s 10mm Fantasy Dungeon and Monsters, and as a result I have seriously put my thinking cap on, trying to come up with more and more elaborate ideas how best to make this fascinating little game as exciting and rewarding for players as possible.... especially thinking of new ways to entice the fantasy gamers out there to `give it a go` and start collecting in this scale.


I`ve been an avid gamer most of my life, since I was about seven or eight; when I collected thousands of those amazing plastic HO/OO scale Airfix figures you used to be able to buy on just about every street corner at the Newsagents. I was playing with toy soldiers before I even knew there WAS such an official/unofficial thing as wargaming... and I used to make up my own simple rules (often in my head as I went along). Then, I was watching an old children’s program called Crackerjack one day (there... that tells you how old I am) and I saw the Battle of Waterloo being fought on a table with 3D terrain and with beautifully painted miniatures displayed throughout, and BANG! That was it, I was caught. Suddenly, I knew I was not alone, and the rest has been a lifelong passion which, thankfully, I`ve never recovered from.


Now I not only indulge in wargaming and role playing games for personal enjoyment; historical games mostly â€" fantasy a close second... but I also have made a career out of writing professionally, especially within the hobby itself.  And it is with this deep lifelong insight into the hobby as a whole (boy have there been changes over the last 40 years) that I approach the subject of fantasy gaming as regards to the exquisite miniatures made and produced by Pendraken Miniatures. Finding them, for me, was like ``finally coming home` and now a large bulk of my hobby is devoted to messing around with these aggressively addictive little models.


But I digress, sorry I`m always doing that. As Gandalf the Grey said to Aragorn “it’s a habit of the old”.


Originally I put Dungeon World together for my own amusement, simply because, when I discovered Pendraken`s 10mm Dungeon and all its wonderful accessories (sublimely sculpted by Germy... http://www.germy.co.uk/miniatures.htm) there simply WERE no rules for the game, and I had to invent my own. Sometime later, I talked with Dave for ages over the phone, and during the chat, I asked him if he would like a copy of the rules to put up as a freebie on his site... and the rest is history.


The rules as you can download and read them now are only the polished down version of the actual game as I have it in my own files and `hands on` manuals, and I`m seriously thinking of taking time out from my novels and other projects to turn the whole Dungeon World thing into a fully illustrated hard cover book.  I`m not interested in making this a financial venture; I just want to share my passion for this game with others â€" covering my costs of printing as I go. So I will probably go ahead and sort out my end of things, then make finished printed copies available to Pendraken for its customers. I think anyone considering taking up 10mm fantasy gaming, and collecting the available Pendraken Miniatures range will, I hope, be happy to know I have a great deal more in store for the Dungeon World game over the coming year and beyond (in fact, I already have the complete mass battle rules written and playtested... all I lack is time right now to make it neat and tidy for others to read and enjoy). I even have a generic quasi-medieval Pendraken campaign role playing game World half fleshed out.


So, I`d be extremely obliged to hear any and all input from other members on this site concerning what YOU would like to see included in the future of Dungeon World, essentials you`d loathe to see left out, and things you`d absolutely hate to see included (mistake you`ve seen other games go along etc).


Dungeon World feels a bit like a rolling stone gathering momentum, and I am extremely proud and honoured to have been instrumental in starting `the ball rolling`. Right now, fresh input would be greatly appreciated.


Six  (Steve)

I'll put the rules in here as well, just in case people have missed them.  We'll have the Supplement up soon as well.

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/DungeonWorld%282nd%20edition%29.pdf

And the new Supplement!:

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/DungeonWorldAdvancedSupplement.pdf

Hey good one! I will buy it for sure!

I am not sure if it helps but:

What I like: I always love Rune Quest and Glorantha world. And generic fantasy (Tygra fire and ice, and so on); historical/mythical bronze age; Mythology; Michael Moorcock world

What I do not like: Peter jackson lord of the ring films (the style and what have become the lord of the rings);

(I hope you are looking for this kind of answer, if it is not  my advanced apologies. Sometimes being a non native english could misconfund the question)

What I like: I always love Rune Quest and Glorantha world. And generic fantasy (Tygra fire and ice, and so on); historical/mythical bronze age; Mythology; Michael Moorcock world

What I do not like: Peter jackson lord of the ring films (the style and what have become the lord of the rings);

hi jchaos79,

That is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y   the type of feedback I`m looking for, thank you so much. With enough information like this, I am better equipped to create something which will suit all tastes.

Thanks for that.... more more more   


Six

What kind of a place do you see Dungeon World being set in?

How about:

A pre industrialised pseudo Elizabethan/pre-English Civil War system of (imaginary) Free City States? Independent Islands of civilization, surrounded by a sea of wild and savage Marcher Lords, Dwimlin tribes (Goblins and Orcs) and Land Pirates, unruly Barons and lawless Oldlanders (Scots and Irish); all feuding over a land once flourishing with structured trade and commerce across the seas to other distant places; all this before the Romani (who stayed a lot longer than they did in the `real` history we know) departed for their own shores and threw Britannia back into a second Dark Age.


Maybe there is a Britannic King... still paying homage to the distant Romani and the `New Religion` which is rapidly spreading throughout the known world? But he`d have his job cut out convincing the rest of his green, blood-soaked, and oh so unpleasant land, that they really should toe the line?

The idea of mixing swords and spears, arquebus and primative cannon, Renaissance mercenary bands and Late Medieval (Agincourt) knights in armour; pitted against more primative Viking warriors and fantastical humanoid nations... is something I could really get hooked on? Besides, what an unusual setting for role playing and of course, the good old Dungeon crawl.

Might even be able to do a dungeon quest in search of the Holy Grail, woohoo.

Please, I`d be very interested in hearing your thoughts?


*whispers* Pssssst! the more we give Pendraken to think about, the more likely we are of getting a few special commission sculpts for this unique world. Here`s an opportunity to be first in line to contribute to a brand new fantasy (with a historical base) campaign world â€" or am I dreaming again. Someone wake me up Mummy *wink*


Six

Ill be honest, ive not read your rules, ive only just found 10mm and was actualy hammering out my own rules very slowly.

Anyway, do you rules have in the the terror/doom/peril point system?  That is the GM gets so many points each turn with which to pay for new monsters, traps or special events.  It has worked well in the dungeon card game Dungeoneer and in Decent, and i think for a game with an active dungeon throwing things at you is much better than the gm having to go ok which square did you step in on that movement? For traps fireing. And also means that monsters can appear behind the adventruers.

Anyway, ill be having a look at the dungeon world rules over the weekend but im pretty sure they will be fab.

Take care
Brian.

thanks for the cool reply 

Hmmm, the games you mention I know well; they are more geared towards the modern fantasy board/wargame trend of `dungeon master versus players` (set in stone pretty much nowadays by companies like Fantasy Flight Games and Blizzard Entertainment). Although these are great games (I raved about Descent in a few reviews I did on them a few years back). Dungeoneer is similar in this approach and as such can tend to be a little inflexible at times. Though, they are not really group participation games as such: i.e. in these the dungeon master is not really the mediator helping the players have a good time but is trying to beat them, as such they are really more like competitive boardgames.

Hi Steve,

First of all, I think we all owe you and everyone at Pendraken a huge thanks for having the discipline to put some rules together and for providing the figures in the first place! I haven't had a chance to look at your rules supplement yet, but am very excited to. I hope you include some solo rules!

Steve Jackson's Middle Earth didn't do much for me either! I actually preferred much of the look of Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated version, though God knows, the film had its problems.

As regards your question, I guess I have always looked at this "world" being like the old fashioned rules that began rpg's. On another post I mentioned an old and sentimental love for Tunnels and Trolls; I recently purchased Labyrinth Lord (GREAT game, btw), which is basically the D&D of the early 1980s, and have been thinking about trolling some dungeons using that set. These rules aren't too concerned with the world setting, and I guess I like that kind wide-open-ess. The players are the good guys and spend inordinate amounts of time exploring the labyrinth strongholds of evil warlocks, stabbing their grunting minions and saving the occasional fair damsel. They were more innocent times...While I enjoy the world of Warhammer, Runequest, etc., I think sometimes these worlds have become almost too dense, are loaded down with too much baggage for my taste. The first is also way too dark for my picture of the Pendraken world. I love the idea of the Grail Quest, though!

The rules should stay fresh and simple. There is something about the diminutive size of these little guys that seems to cry out for keeping things stream-lined and maybe a little generic (in a good way). You have done this admirably so far! And having said this, I AM looking forward to reading your supplemental rules! Sigh...It is a terrible burden being a hypocrite...

My choice for new sculpts I feel with a burning passion:  PIG FACED ORCS!!! Yes, yes, I know, I am still wallowing in my dreams of old-fashioned gaming, but wouldn't they be wonderful in this scale? I would love some troops of them tramping around in my dungeon complex.

Well, Steve, sorry for the ramble. Keep us posted on this! Needless to say, I am very excited about your project. Months ago I talked to Leon about getting some photos to him of the range, since I have nearly the whole dungeon set-up painted and ready to rumble (and it looks rather spiffy, though I say it who shouldn't). The problem is I am a technological dunce of the first order and am daunted by the process, but this conversation has the blood boiling again...

All the best,

Daryl

Quote from: arundel on 06 May 2010, 02:45:17 PM
My choice for new sculpts I feel with a burning passion:  PIG FACED ORCS!!! Yes, yes, I know, I am still wallowing in my dreams of old-fashioned gaming, but wouldn't they be wonderful in this scale? I would love some troops of them tramping around in my dungeon complex.

Hi Daryl, our Hobgoblins were actually a range of Orcs we acquired from someone, and they have that slightly more piggy appearance to them. Could be what you're after?

Oh I do like them! Those hobgoblins look great, but I was picturing something even more porcine. If you've ever seen the illustrations in the old D&D sets, THAT'S the look. Interestingly enough, they are being made again in 28mm by a company called Otherworld Miniatures. I would kill to get some of their critters in the smaller scale!

Porkys Revenge!

hi there arundel,

thank you so much for that last thread; replies like yours are like an ever ready battery to me, providing me with the top up recharge I need to keep my mind ticking away with ideas.

Wow! I remember going to the cinema first time round to see Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated version of Lord of the Rings. I still have a soft spot for that film, flawed as it was... it somehow captured the magic of Tolkiens world in a way PJ`s new and flashily expensive mainstream virsion totally failed to do - missing the mark by a full furlong. Though I`d be lying if I didn`t admit I still enjoy watching both versions at least once every few months.

I`m totally with you about Labyrinth Lord. I actively seek out rule systems, and gaming aids with that old school feel about them, and the shelves in my games room are full of lucky lesser known searches I`ve made over the years.

Do you remember Thane Tostig and those pig faced sprites? Sadly, and rather stupidly, I sold my entire collection some years back, something I will kick myself over for the rest of my days; though I still have the little rule book which went with it. Only eleven pages long, but FULL of generic vibrance, whispered half splashes and promises of ideas just around the corner, hidden in the mists of an undefined Dark Age continent still waiting to be fleshed out and explored.

I already decided long ago that (should the thing take off) the Dungeon World theme would follow a similar route, much like those early Warhammer 40K hardback books "Slaves to Darkness” and “The Lost and the Damned”, merely suggesting snippets of ideas and atmosphere teasers, designed really just to evoke an emotional response in the reader, to become a vehicle to ignite one`s own imagination in whichever direction he/she chose to take.

Similarly, the semi undefined world I am slowly working out as the backdrop to Dungeon World (as opposed to a rigid scaffolding), is not a confined place that will force players into a mould of the author`s devising. Rather, it should inspire the reader to go his/her own way; taking what is written as a series of suggestions, which can be referred to (or not) as and when needed.

This will be backed up with some ready to play scenarios (dungeons and table top mass battle reports) the Pendraken Miniatures collector can use as a stage to enhance one off games or campaigns with a rich inter-mesh of mythology, to be used or ignored on personal whim.

But one step at a time... lol. For now, I need to put the rules in order properly, so everything feels right and properly structured. DW as it exists right now is merely a `taster` if you like, of what is to come.

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve,

There was a lot to like in Bakshi's old film! I preferred many of the characterizations (of Aragorn, Gimli, Galadriel...) far over those of SJ. Though they didn't have pig-faces, the orcs I thought were really well done also. It seems that the biggest problem the earlier production had was lack of funds, which was definetly something New Line didn't struggle with. Like you, however, I proudly own both and enjoy watching them! Neither holds a candle to the books though.

I don't know what the Thane Tostig product was you are referring to. They weren't the old D&D orcs (made by Minifigs, I think), were they?

I love looking through old games for ideas also. The past week I've had a great time reading Labyrinth Lord. The author seems to have captured the feel of those old rpgs very successfully, hasn't he? The artwork in the new revised editions is wonderfully quaint, and fits the oeuvre just right.

Your ideas on just giving suggestions to potential players of Dungeon World is a sound one. We seem to share so many interests I'm sure I'll love-and purchase-anything you come up with. The scenario hooks for both dungeon delving and the battle rules is a great idea. I always like things like that, partly because they get the juices flowing for fun games, and because I find it fascinating how other gamers are using their stuff.

Thank you again for doing all this, and please keep us posted!

Daryl

Hiya,

Glad to see there are more fantasy and rpg aficionados on here.

I have read through your rules, and they seem solid enough, in as far as one can judge that without actually playing them.  There's not much more I can seriously say about them at this stage.  You seem to have a vision of skirmish magic very similar to my own skirmish system, but even simpler - that's a good thing, if I want complexity we can have a massive RQ battle which takes hours, we sometimes do.  I am definitely going to have a closer look, and maybe adopt some things for our own system.  If I have any feedback, I'll get back here with it.

I'm not sure how useful it is, but I thought I'd write down how we currently play. 

First of all, 80% of our fantasy playing is done in Glorantha.  I've been playing RQ since version 2, and the game world has been fleshed out immensely since then.

We play RPG using RQ2 / RQ 3 hybrid rules + extensive house rules with 28 mm miniatures.

We play skirmish using 28 mm miniatures as well.  I have a large collection of Celts and vikings serving as Heortlanders, and Greeks, Romans and Assyrians mainly make up the Lunar Empire.  There rules have been home written, although still in test phase - probably for ever.

I am making 10 mm armies for the  massive battles in Glorantha.  I prefer 10 mm because for me it is the best balance between mass units - if you can call a 40x20 base with 10 infantry mass-y - and good detail on the units.  For those battles, we use the HOTT system, with some minimal modifications to cater for Gloranthan magic.  We have found the HOTT balance to be rather precise, and you can easily mess it up.

Other fantasy is Warhammer based, me and my son have our armies, green-skins and dwarfs, and we fight out the occasional battle using WH rules.

Keeping an eye on this one.