Is there any period of history, war/conflict, or otherwise that you'd consider innapropriate for wargaming?

Why?

That's a good question, I'll be interested to see the replies for this.

None that I can think of...I can think of some that hold no interest whatsoever - but that's not because they're beyond the pale.

M'boto gorge? 

Elizabeth's Irish Wars?

Definitely beyond the pale...

Hi

For me ww1 western front no fun at all just misery and mud.

Jim

WW1 early or late makes for an interesting game. Mid-war is a bit boring at both the tactical and strategic levels.

Aahh...perhaps i should clarify a bit...

Is there any period of history, war/conflict, or otherwise that you'd consider MORALLY inappropriate for wargaming?

Would you, for example wargame the current conflict in Afghanistan?  If not, would you wargame the Soviet intervention their in the 1980's?  Why/why not?

Would you wargame 'black hawk down', or maybe the recent attack in Fallujah?

Would you wargame the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto?

What about the IRA vs the British in the 1970's?

How about the recent breakup of Yugoslavia?  The Bosnian war.  Fair game?

It seems people are keen for Pendraken to make Falklands War figures for example, so presumably there's no problem doing that action.  Why?

I currently game ultra-moderns: Iraq & the 'Stan now, plus Somalia [BHD] & current [SF v pirates] -these in skirmish using 28mm & Ambush Alley rules; ditto re Soviet-Afghan & Balkans - in 10/12mm using Cold War Commander (& nosher's *lovely* Balkans variant).

No problem, no moral dilemma for me - I'm *gaming* - and I've got plenty of contacts & friends who are currently serving in contemporary theatres - many of whom *also* game those conflicts: for example, I just sent a mate some 28s I'd painted for him to use on deployment in Helmand: the figures I sent him? Tier 1 Tali & some SBS...so he's gaming a conflict that he's actively involved in - in his down time while he's actually there fighting...get your head around that one!

Quote from: nikharwood on 12 March 2010, 11:20:55 PM
I just sent a mate some 28s I'd painted for him to use on deployment in Helmand: the figures I sent him? Tier 1 Tali & some SBS...so he's gaming a conflict that he's actively involved in - in his down time while he's actually there fighting...get your head around that one!

That must be a bit strange, but at the same time it's good that they are able to detach themselves and have a bit of downtime like that.

Yep - especially as he's not mainstream...mad fecker 

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMAahh...perhaps i should clarify a bit...

Is there any period of history, war/conflict, or otherwise that you'd consider MORALLY inappropriate for wargaming?

No, because games are not immoral, but people are allowed to decide for themselves what they think is immoral, and if they feel a game is immoral, then who am I to doubt their feelings?

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMWould you, for example wargame the current conflict in Afghanistan?  If not, would you wargame the Soviet intervention their in the 1980's?  Why/why not?

Yes I would games current conflicts, because they are interesting campaigns that make for repeatable games.

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMWould you wargame 'black hawk down', or maybe the recent attack in Fallujah?

Planning and building forces for this at this time. Coming on slowly, but yes. I will be using AK47 Republic as the ruleset.

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMWould you wargame the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto?

For me this is the sort of war-game that is best played as an RPG within a campaign plan. I tend to take this type of historical conflict and play them out using Battletech, because it disguises the situation nicely, and makes for a rip-roaring game. There again I play "black wargames", have been involved in groups that promote such games, and wrote a black wargame scenario for a mainstream games magazine many years ago, that was a work camp game. So nothing you've mentioned so far is beyond the pale. However, I don't glorify war, or fetishise forces, which is the real reason for a lot of the anger and disgust around the NAZIs for instance IMNSHO. YMMV.

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMWhat about the IRA vs the British in the 1970's?

Not enough action for repeatable play variation for me, but yes I have played in IRA games.

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMHow about the recent breakup of Yugoslavia?  The Bosnian war.  Fair game?

Not an area of interest, but only because I can only cope with a set number of periods, which are WW1, SCW, Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, oh and Battletech. 

Quote from: Luddite on 12 March 2010, 11:08:05 PMIt seems people are keen for Pendraken to make Falklands War figures for example, so presumably there's no problem doing that action.  Why?

My Uncle-in-Law was there, and I don't think he would have a problem with it. I'll have to ask him next time I see him, and get back later.

So to sum up where I come from. War is not the same as war-gaming. I can't remember a game I played for hours with boring stuff that ends in a few minutes of total adrenaline overload, not even the ones where I've been on training exercises with soldiers simulating a field exercise. And why would I spend hours of my life doing something that bores me? I have a job that can do most of that, and I get paid for the boredom, and when it get really exciting, as in oh my god someone might die kinda way, then I'm still getting paid for doing my job. Wargames OTOH are generally some enjoyable hours spent with a few mates playing a game, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'd say that if any theatre was morally wrong, then they all are.  In every war there are people who suffer, innocent and not-so-innocent people who die, there is always a hidden agenda, it is rarely about freedom and nothing else.

Still, by recreating the conflict, ancient or modern, we learn to understand more than just the battlefield tactics.  I believe you get to take a peek inside the heads of the commanders.  By reading up about a conflict, you learn to understand both parties, even though you don't (have to) agree with either.

There can be tasteless ways to go about recreating a battle, but that is a different discussion.

Just my 2 cents

I personally feel uncomfortable with ongoing wars such as Afganistan but now OK with the Gulf Wars; Wonder why.

Quote from: Stefanpanzer on 13 March 2010, 11:45:18 PM
I personally feel uncomfortable with ongoing wars such as Afganistan but now OK with the Gulf Wars; Wonder why.

We forgive as we forget?


Your opinion is quite common among wargamers which is why i started this thread.  It seems there's often discomfort found in wargaming 'close' wars, that fades as the conflict in question moves more into history. 

The 'request thread' seemed to have a lot of people saying 'yeah, Falklands War figs would be great', which made me think that that conflict has now moved into 'history' enough for people to be comfortable wargaming with it.


It seems that so far the concensus here though is that 'no conflict is beyond the Pale'...which is interesting.