QuoteOh dear. Let's ignore the quality and go straight to accusations of racism.

Well,there have been  negative comments largely aimed at the ethnicity  of some of the cast and often from the usual suspects. Just an side  but the cast of Jackson's LoTR and Hobbit disaster have commented on what  they perceive as  the racist motivation of some of the criticism.

https://nypost.com/2022/09/08/original-lotr-cast-supports-rings-of-power-amid-racist-attacks/


So far I quite like it - I will tolerate Lenny Henry but I will draw the line at Sand Worms, should they appear

QuoteSo far I quite like it - I will tolerate Lenny Henry but I will draw the line at Sand Worms, should they appear

I'm still watching to see where they go, which is not quite the same as enjoying it. 'Tis a little bit slow, though.

No problems with how people look, but more with how they sound. Especially the proto-hobbits. Having non-Irish actors doing Irish accents and not always succeeding, veering away into their best country-bumpkin Mummerset every now and then.

Spoiler alert . . .






Didn't understand the Numenorean queen - she doesn't want the elf there at all, but she won't let her leave? Puzzled.

Quote from: Raider4 on 10 September 2022, 12:38:48 PMI'm still watching to see where they go, which is not quite the same as enjoying it. 'Tis a little bit slow, though.

No problems with how people look, but more with how they sound. Especially the proto-hobbits. Having non-Irish actors doing Irish accents and not always succeeding, veering away into their best country-bumpkin Mummerset every now and then.

Spoiler alert . . .






Didn't understand the Numenorean queen - she doesn't want the elf there at all, but she won't let her leave? Puzzled.

It is actually fun to try and identify the bits of pop culture the writers have purloined/re-purposed- Hobbit The Wicker Man and Galadriel Zero Dark Thirty.

The Numenorean queen is presumably in something of a quandary. She is where she is due to the  king being secluded for being too pro-Elf. However part of her kingdom is clearly not as anti-elf as the rest. And now some stupid sea captain, who couldn't leave well enough alone, has not only brought an elf to her court but an elf with a long and illustrious history still celebrated in her kingdom. The standard response of dropping the elf in an oubliette and sending the sea captain to patrol the farthest reaches of Numenorean seas, in a leaky boat, may cause more problems than it solves. What to do? What to do?

Quote from: flamingpig0 on 10 September 2022, 12:15:10 PMWell,there have been  negative comments largely aimed at the ethnicity  of some of the cast and often from the usual suspects. Just an side  but the cast of Jackson's LoTR and Hobbit disaster have commented on what  they perceive as  the racist motivation of some of the criticism.

Here's some first hand criticism.

Just Some Guy seems to know a lot of Tolkein. He can recite all sorts of esoteric facts, and he's not a fan of the show. Oh, and he's black.   
 
Az - not for those of delicate sensibilities. At about 4:20 he says he hasn't got to the politics because there is so much wrong with the show.   

Picked this chap at random: never watched him before.

There is criticism at the forced diversity (which is one of the show's proud boasts, remember) but is that racism? If so are those who criticised Scarlett Johannsen in "Ghost in the Shell" racists? What about those who complained about Tilda Swinton in Dr Strange? Are those who bemoaned Zeobia Shroff portraying Ms Marvel's mother because she is a non-Muslim Indian, and not a Pakistani Muslim also racists?

Or are there just double standards?

On the Harfoots, I've no objection to the casting but I am a little concerned that only Nori and "the giant" raise them above an Ewok level  cutesy comedy.

I've been impressed by Markella Kavenagh and Megan Richards as Nori and Poppy though, to be fair, they've had a bit more to get their teeth into than the others.

Bizarrely, the one thing that really grinds my gears is that an elf as old, martial and action focussed as Galadriel dyes her bloo ..... min hair!

QuoteBizarrely, the one thing that really grinds my gears is that an elf as old, martial and action focussed as Galadriel dyes her bloo ..... min hair!

Again, noticing things like "her roots need doing"* suggests that possibly you're not completely gripped by what you're watching?



* Yes, I noticed that too.

We haven't watched the latest episodes yet but haven't worried about the diversity in the casting. In fact, as our daughter who is mixed race (note not bi-racial as she is a mix of English, Welsh, Birom. Gashash and Fulani) has pointed out, for her it is nice to see people who, and I quote "look like her" on the screen. This is something that we as 'white people' tend not to realise.

On the subject of mixtures, I may just note that the most beautiful woman, and ditto man, I've ever seen were both half Italian.

QuoteAgain, noticing things like "her roots need doing"* suggests that possibly you're not completely gripped by what you're watching?



* Yes, I noticed that too.

It's more that I'm used to her being a brunette so every time she appears on screen I have to make a mental adjustment. The fact that I think she's prettier as a brunette may have something to do with it, though I'm sure elderly gentlemen such as I should not express such a thought in these "me too" days.

Quote from: fsn on 10 September 2022, 02:34:16 PMHere's some first hand criticism.

Just Some Guy seems to know a lot of Tolkein. He can recite all sorts of esoteric facts, and he's not a fan of the show. Oh, and he's black.   

 

Az - not for those of delicate sensibilities. At about 4:20 he says he hasn't got to the politics because there is so much wrong with the show.   

Picked this chap at random: never watched him before.

There is criticism at the forced diversity (which is one of the show's proud boasts, remember) but is that racism? If so are those who criticised Scarlett Johannsen in "Ghost in the Shell" racists? What about those who complained about Tilda Swinton in Dr Strange? Are those who bemoaned Zeobia Shroff portraying Ms Marvel's mother because she is a non-Muslim Indian, and not a Pakistani Muslim also racists?

Or are there just double standards?

That is far too many Youtube vidoes to watch and it would be better for you to precis them for me or perhaps be more traditional and tell me what you think

I am going to have to ask you what you mean by forced diversity as I don't recognise the term but I am pretty sure it is not one of the show's proud boasts.  I think I read LotR 2 1/2 times before the age of 13 so am somewhat jaded with the original story and certainly don't wish to experience it again. This might explain my boredom with the Jackson LotRs but for the record Jackson took a huge money-grubbing dump on Tolkien with the three Hobbit films. He certainly isn't a paragon of LotR brand purity.

Much like the LOTR films, it is faithful to Tolkien in that it has a variety of daft creatures and themes of existential menace alongside what Lenin might describe as scenes of rural idiocy. Its presentation of Middle Earth is very similar to Jackson's with the obvious exception of it not having sand worms but having non-white actors. I don't let the presence of non-white actors spoil the program for me but it obviously destroys the enjoyment for a vocal minority. However, at least they can have fun being outraged and make a little profit from being so. Everyone wins!

Quote from: Raider4 on 10 September 2022, 02:50:05 PMAgain, noticing things like "her roots need doing"* suggests that possibly you're not completely gripped by what you're watching?

* Yes, I noticed that too.

Actually suggests the reverse

Quote from: fsn on 10 September 2022, 02:34:16 PMThere is criticism at the forced diversity (which is one of the show's proud boasts, remember) but is that racism? If so are those who criticised Scarlett Johannsen in "Ghost in the Shell" racists? What about those who complained about Tilda Swinton in Dr Strange? Are those who bemoaned Zeobia Shroff portraying Ms Marvel's mother because she is a non-Muslim Indian, and not a Pakistani Muslim also racists?

Or are there just double standards?

Possibly- as there are obviously people who complain about one sort of "forced diversity" but not another.

Quote from: flamingpig0 on 10 September 2022, 04:25:43 PMThat is far too many Youtube vidoes to watch and it would be better for you to precis them for me or perhaps be more traditional snd tell me what you think

No, that's OK. Just trying to get you to look at some primary sources. Don't want to do all the work for you.


I'm withdrawing from this thread. My point remains that if you like the show, enjoy it. I found it to be tedious beyond belief with the main character being totally unlikeable. I didn't think it reflected Tolkein's work. If it did not pretend to be Tolkein, it would still be an awful programme. I'm not getting into the diversity minefield, 'cos to be honest it's a red herring that is being used to devalue legitimate criticism.   

Quote from: fsn on 10 September 2022, 05:50:01 PMNo, that's OK. Just trying to get you to look at some primary sources. Don't want to do all the work for you.

I'm withdrawing from this thread. My point remains that if you like the show, enjoy it. I found it to be tedious beyond belief with the main character being totally unlikeable. I didn't think it reflected Tolkein's work. If it did not pretend to be Tolkein, it would still be an awful programme. I'm not getting into the diversity minefield, 'cos to be honest it's a red herring that is being used to devalue legitimate criticism.   

You seem to have relied on posting other people's work and if "forced "diversity was a red herring it was one you were more than happy to wave around.