Mark fairly general rules - vehicles of British and German origin have Smoke dischargers, most French vehicles likewise after 1970. US started fitting in or after 75. Isreaeli refits have them added if not already fitted. WEstern WWII tanks have smoke mortars, often replaced in refits with SD.

Soviet / Russian tanks from T44? and certainly after it are fitted with engine generators. These leave the lead vehicle exposed so I'd house rule that the 1st wave should be hit as if in cover, on a 6. Not certain on the APC's, doubt it was fitted to any wheeled ones, although the 60/70/80 got SD from roughly 1980. BMP's may have engine generators fitted. All refit/new build tanks from the early 80's add smoke generators.

See if you can get hold of the old tabletop "modern equipment handbook" it lists al the kit up to the late 90's

Thanks Ian - but my comment still stands - this is a level of detail that I am leaving to individual players to research themselves.

It is not always clear-cut by date or nationality. Most of the pre-60's British armoured cars (for example) do not have smoke dispensers as standard (pre-Ferret) and the US are also very inconsistent - M60s for example could have them but very often they were detached. A lot of the US, British, French & Soviet kit that was sent abroad, was without dispensers - so you cannot always assume that an M113 in Arab/Iranian service would have dispensers.

Thanks
Mark

The Chinese list has an omission, the Type 89 Japanese tank - had one or 2 btn from 1944/5 to 1947/8? No combat use but could have.

Just wondering why the T62 is not available in the Arab Israeli Wars list? The Egyptian 25th Armoured Brigade used them exclusively during the Yom Kippur War.  They were ambushed and engaged the Israelis on the western side of the canal in a night tank battle with Centurion's of the Israeli 162nd Reserve Armoured Division on 17 October.  And lost. Only 5 T62s escaped.

Been doing a lot of reading on the campaign.  Apparently the 25th Armoured was an Elite unit. Sent in as a last ditch effort to destroy the Israeli bridge crossing.

It's in the list I wrote for Mark, assume that it's an editing problem. stats are :

T62   100   AFV   25   5/100   5/60   3   4   4      >1985 R

Thanks Lord Kermit.

QuoteIt's in the list I wrote for Mark, assume that it's an editing problem. stats are :

T62 100 AFV 25 5/100 5/60 3 4 4 >1985 R

That's different from the Soviet list.

Quote from: Raider4 on 09 July 2022, 04:05:08 PMThat's different from the Soviet list.

Does the Soviet list for 1983 have predominantly T62 or T72 tanks?

Quote from: pbeccas on 09 July 2022, 08:19:22 AMJust wondering why the T62 is not available in the Arab Israeli Wars list? The Egyptian 25th Armoured Brigade used them exclusively during the Yom Kippur War.  They were ambushed and engaged the Israelis on the western side of the canal in a night tank battle with Centurion's of the Israeli 162nd Reserve Armoured Division on 17 October.  And lost. Only 5 T62s escaped.

Been doing a lot of reading on the campaign.  Apparently the 25th Armoured was an Elite unit. Sent in as a last ditch effort to destroy the Israeli bridge crossing.

Yes - thanks - this has been picked up previously as an editing error - we'll get them added in when we do the major list edit. Cheers
Mark

QuoteYou can easily convert a vehicle to Recce by adding 20pts. But we'll look to add the Strv 74 in the Recce section _ I will just need to check the service dates.

The tractors are an easy add - there are stats for these in the British Falkland list - but they are classified as 'Prime Movers' so can tow things but not act as transports - although if the Swedes had them towing large trailers they might be able to move INF: units as well - but they'd be classified as a VEH.

Cheers
Mark

Thanks Mark, I have found multiple sources mentioning Type 66 Brigades would use requisitioned civilian tractors and trailers in a conflict for transporting infantry. Makes sense, because local tractors would be well-suited to winter conditions. I couldn't find a Swedish picture, but here is the Finnish army in the 1970s using tractors and trailers. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGKCCHXXwAA5vod?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Quote from: Raider4 on 09 July 2022, 04:05:08 PMThat's different from the Soviet list.

It's coppied direct from CWC 1, I don't subscribe to the overpowered Soviet guns and saw no reason to change then current stats.

Quote from: Raider4 on 09 July 2022, 04:05:08 PMThat's different from the Soviet list.

That's Ian view.

I'll be using the stats from the base-line Soviet list for the T62 etc.in the Arab list. And I'd suggest that that is the right way to approach this.

The challenge you have - if you believe the manufacturers stats on Soviet tank guns - is that they end up with longer ranges than most NATO tanks. If that was carried through to on-table stats most gamers using Soviet equipment would just sit back and shoot at NATO outside of NATO's range. Gamers being gamers.
That is however not the way that Soviet MBT tactics worked. It is all about attacking in-force.

Also, the 'reality' of these longer stats in actual combat was proven to be that the poorer quality optics and ranging, plus a general propensity for soviet trained crews to want get a lot closer to shoot it out with the enemy, means that the stats for soviet guns have been adjusted to take into account these factors. You can argue that maybe that choice should be left to individual gamers - but in that case you might as well be playing Warhammer or chess not CWC-II.

Thanks
Mark (the author)

The 'correct' stats for the T62 in the Arab States lists will be:

T-62 100pts AFV MV:25 AP:6/95 AT:5/60 4 4 -/9 1975*+ R/IR (Syria and Egypt*)

(*I'll need to double check the dates and numbers available for each country)

Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark

At first CWC2 is a great system! I like it very much and army lists looking great!
But I have question about IFV's like a French VAB family, USA LAV-25's or Soviet BTR's family and all kinds of BRDM.
We have threat them like a whealed vehicles? I'm asking becouse in rules is state that all AFV's are tracked. And in lists some armored vehicles have this "whealed" adnotation and other not. How to treat them (BTR VAB and LAV)? For terrain obstacles like a whealed but without this road movment bonus?
The addnotation in army lists is not a problam becouse I know what kind of particural system have a traction but I have to know if this AFV's what have this adnotation "wheealed" have this road bonus movement and this rest what is whealed but without this adnotation don't. Also Trucks and 4x4 have this road movement bonus?
I'm looking forward for Iraqi wars Army lists.

Thank you for a great work on this lists.
Darek

While I'm not sure what the rules say the LAV's of the New Zealand army are quite happy running at road speeds (~100 kph) as I see them on a regular basis on the way too and from work.

  I also not sure but in the rules we have to threat them like a whealed or not?

I get it Rhys! I needed a couple of minutes to get allusion English is not my native language so I faster get in english when someone speak to me plain like a for Labrador
So yes they are whelaed.
Thank you!

Hi there

If an AFV is wheeled - like a BTR-60 (for example) - it is classified as Wheeled - so gets the road move advantage and the penalties associated with wire.

The wording should say something along the lines of 'most AFVs are tracked' ... we'll get that sorted in the errata edit.

If you can identify the page that it says that one, that would be very helpful.
Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark

I'm okay with that. Now I know if we have real world vehicle on wheels we treat them that they have this ability.
I suppose that trucks and 4x4 jeeps also.
Distiction in rules for APC's and IFV's is wonderfull.
Yes I saw this sentence 'most AFVs are tracked' probablly in the end of the rules in descritption and chracteristic of the paricular unit types.
Anyway great army lists!

Thank you for tremendous work on this army lists.
Darek

A pleasure Darek - I'm glad you are enjoying the lists and rules. 
Welcome to the forum and the world of Cold War Commander.
KR
Mark