Quote from: Big Insect on 24 May 2022, 06:05:50 PMAh - no - you only need 3 but they can be of either or a mix of the two types.
A clarification Note has gone missing in the Special Rules section.

Good spot - we'll get that sorted.
Thanks

I am collecting good spots- I need one more for a Hat Trick

Indeed - I 'claim' the fact that on the back of the cover it states there are 15 scenarios (when there are 16) and that Angolan is spelt Angloan - how that got one through the proof reading I'll never know   

Posted in error

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 24 May 2022, 11:34:09 AMAny source for the Littlejohn use ?

Images of War book the Royal Armoured Corps in the Cold War 1946-1990, MP Robinson & Rob Griffin, Pen & Sword (2016) pp119-120
A higly recommended book, it also shows the Alecto being used post war in a few recce regiments, and AEC Mk.III

On Page 90 it states that AA attacks are listed in the Notes column of Army Lists but they seem to be missing from the PDFs for Bundeswehr, British, Soviet and Soviet VDV army lists.  (I haven't checked the example army lists included in the rules). I understand that AA stats for CO, HQs and Dedicated AA units are the same as their AP stats in all cases.

Regards

Chris

QuoteFinally have you got any info on 2nd Light Infantry in 1974/5 in Germany. Freind was attached for a short time and wants to recreate it if possible but has lost his photos.

2nd Bttn LI served in 20th Armoured brigade of 4th Division from March 1974, replacing 1st Bttn LI. Based at Lemgo, it was replaced by 1st Bttn Royal Welch Fusiliers in Jan 1978.

20th Armoured Bde 1974-1975ish:
Bde HQ & 200th Signals Sqn
Life Guards Armoured Regiment (in NI May-Sept 1974) to Oct 1975 then Blues & Royals
9/12th Lancers Armoured Regiment  (in NI Jan-May 1975) to May 1976 then Queens Own Hussars, Chieftain tanks
2nd Bttn Light Infantry (in NI March-July 1975 & Aug-Dec 1976)
3rd Bttn Royal Anglian Regiment to Aug 1975 then 2nd Bttn Royal Reg of fusiliers

4th Divisional support
1st RHA: A, B, E Batteries (Abbotts)
27th Medium Arty Reg: 6, 23, 312nd Bttys (M109)
19th Field Arty Reg: 25, 28th, 67th Field Bttys (Abbotts) to Aug 1974
then 26th Medium Arty Reg: 16, 17, 159 Btys (M109)
26th Engineer Reg: 5th, 25th Field Sqn RE
35th Engineer Reg: 29th, 42nd Field Sqn RE
2nd Armoured Engineer Sqn RE
44th Field Support Sqn RE

4th AAC Regiment: 654th, 661st, 662nd Sqns AAC (helicopters)
The division only had one other brigade, the 6th Armoured Brigade.
Source: The British Army in Germany An Organizational History 1947-2004, GE Watson & RA Rinaldi, tiger Lily Publications (2005)

In theory the 2nd LI would be organised as a normal mech bttn with FV432, this link implies so:
https://www.lightinfantry.org.uk/regiments/li/li_index.htm
but we can see how the NI deployments really disrupted the brigade organisation.
Some OOB details here:
https://www.baor-locations.org/stornowaybks.aspx.html
HQ Company: Sigs Plt: Mk1 FV432, Recce Plt,Bugle Plt
A, B, D Companies: all FV432 Mk1
Support Company: FV32 Mk2 Swingfire (?)

the Armoured Regiments in theory would be 74x Chieftain, 8x Scorpion, 6(?)x FV438, but might still be on the older TOE of what? 45x Chieftain, Ferrets ? I'm not well genned up on the 1970s TOEs, and they seem hard to find.

Any idea what kit it had ?

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 25 May 2022, 05:59:21 AMAny idea what kit it had ?

Just standard British 1970s infantry as far as I can tell - SLR, Sterling, GPMG, flak jackets - there are videos on Youtube of it's service in NI. I suspect the Falklands War British range would provide sufficient 10mm figures.

I have found a 1969 TOE for a Mech bttn and 1970 Tank Regiment since, which may or may not be relevant.

Thanks Mark. It had 4 x 438, 9 432 Rarden, 4 Milan posts and all most all rest of 432's had Peak turrets. No live Milans though.

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 25 May 2022, 07:43:43 AMThanks Mark. It had 4 x 438, 9 432 Rarden, 4 Milan posts and all most all rest of 432's had Peak turrets. No live Milans though.

That's a lot of none-standard issue kit. Presumably then the battalion was a bit of testing unit?
rationale being -

a) The FV432 peak turret only entered service in 1975, not reaching full deployment (2 per platoon) until 1978
b) The FV432 30mm Rarden served in the Berlin Brigade from 1976, which suggests 2 LI had them for testing.
c) FV438 was not standard issue for a Mech Battalion
d) Milan-1 didn't enter British service until 1978 according to some sources, 1975 according to others.

Makes for an interesting wargames unit

The entire brigade was a test unit - also the Rardens didn't go to Berlin til 77, Warminster had 4 in 76.

Quoteb) The FV432 30mm Rarden served in the Berlin Brigade from 1976, which suggests 2 LI had them for testing.

Pedant alert - the Berlin Brigade was the name of the American force in Berlin.

The British force was the Berlin Infantry Brigade.

Quote from: Raider4 on 25 May 2022, 10:47:19 AMPedant alert - the Berlin Brigade was the name of the American force in Berlin.

The British force was the Berlin Infantry Brigade.

Man after my own heart

Korean war list - why is the 17lb ATG more powerful than Centurion Mk III with 20lb? In wider British list it is different to Korean war PDF stat lines.

Just checking Vietnam lists for my 15mm - Sheridan has 'misfire' special rule but that's not in the special rules section of the book, is it hidden elsewhere?

My observations so far have been on the PDF version only, but have just received new rules in the post and I note that the stats in the rules for Brit and Soviet IATWs and Mortars do not match those in the PDFs. In the rules IATW AT ranges are shorter than those in PDFs, which reflects the Howitzer rule. For most Mortars their AT ranges are missing from the rules, but they do appear in the PDFs, some of which have asterisks.

QuoteThe British force was the Berlin Infantry Brigade.

And note the famous British Berlin camo was not not introduced until the early 80's, so this, sadly, is a work of fiction:

Quote from: Superscribe on 24 May 2022, 11:14:31 PMOn Page 90 it states that AA attacks are listed in the Notes column of Army Lists but they seem to be missing from the PDFs for Bundeswehr, British, Soviet and Soviet VDV army lists.  (I haven't checked the example army lists included in the rules). I understand that AA stats for CO, HQs and Dedicated AA units are the same as their AP stats in all cases.

Regards

Chris

Thanks Chris
We'll correct that - the stats to use are the actual AP & AT stats - you use AP against all Aircraft and Transport helicopters and AT against Attack Helicopters (not that these generally tend to differ) - I reached the decision partway through the lists that all I was doing with the AA stats was duplicating them in the Notes column.
As you cannot shoot SAMs at ground targets and the AA guns were all going to end up as the same factors for hitting ground targets as aerial ones - it seemed a sensible change.
Cheers
Mark

Quote from: Superscribe on 25 May 2022, 05:05:14 PMMy observations so far have been on the PDF version only, but have just received new rules in the post and I note that the stats in the rules for Brit and Soviet IATWs and Mortars do not match those in the PDFs. In the rules IATW AT ranges are shorter than those in PDFs, which reflects the Howitzer rule. For most Mortars their AT ranges are missing from the rules, but they do appear in the PDFs, some of which have asterisks.

Thanks for this -

We picked up errors in the printed lists too late to correct them ahead of the go-to-print deadline - the original thought had been that with AP & AT stats you wouldn't need the longer ranges or the H designation, but that didn't take into account firing at longer range at fortifications - so the longer ranges and H designation were added back for the online lists.

Mortars with an * are up  to 100mm (or there abouts) and only inflict suppression on armoured targets.
Mortars without the * inflict hits.
Again this error was picked up after the gone-to-print deadline.

QuoteFinally have you got any info on 2nd Light Infantry in 1974/5 in Germany. Freind was attached for a short time and wants to recreate it if possible but has lost his photos.

Gents - not wishing to pee on your party so to speak - but can I please remind you:

Please confine your posts to this thread purely to Army list errata or suggestions (there is a separate thread for Rules Errata) - thank you.

A bit too late to stop this topic expanding - but if you can move to a new separate thread please - that would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Mark