Yes there would be at  least 1 carpenter abord most naval vessels - this continues into artificers today. The carpenter would have had some materaials avliable, but could also improvise from stuff in the local area supposiong there were trees around. Wooden hulls and masts do have some advantage.

Ahem.....Back to the original point........

A very big wasps' nest.....I didn't half go back down the ladder quickly.

(This was back in Notts......not here !)

Cheers - Phil.

Blimey! How long did it take you to run from Notts to S Wales?

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 28 July 2021, 02:42:15 PM
Yes there would be at  least 1 carpenter abord most naval vessels - this continues into artificers today. The carpenter would have had some materaials avliable, but could also improvise from stuff in the local area supposiong there were trees around. Wooden hulls and masts do have some advantage.

According to "Nelson's Navy" (Brian Lavery, Conway, 1989) every ship had a carpenter and most had carpenters mates. Carpenters had to be trained ashore and then 6 months as a carpenter's mate with certificates of good conduct. Equal pay to boatswain and gunner, and had a crew of up to 10 men on a large ship.     

Responsible for "keeping the ship afloat". Had  a store room in  the orlop with a supply of timber and nails. In the event of fire the carpenters "were to open the cocks that allowed water into the pump well". 

I am sure I read of a ship that during WWII lost engine power due to enemy action and managed to jury rig sufficient sail area to get home. It may have been a Flower class corvette, but I cannot remember the name of the ship or the circumstances, but I am sure someone will...
Whilst my knowledge of sailing ships is limited to Thames Barges and 40m Sail Training ships, all quite modest compared to even a frigate of the Nelson era, I can attest that spars and yards and top-masts are hoisted aloft from the deck using just the vessels own gear.
When learning to sail on a more modest two masted 50' ketch back in the seventies the skipper would sometimes announce 'Jury Rig' day. The rules were that you could use any sail in any conceivable way, as long as it was not designed to be hoisted in that way. So the genoa would be hoisted upside down in place of the mainsail, various 'tween mast staysails would fly from the mizzen and even the storm jib suspended under the boom and sheeted back to the transom was tried. I'm not sure such fun would be allowed nowdays.
As for the Jury Knot. I have only ever seen them in those display cases of knots you see on the wall of a nautical themed pub.

I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 04 October 2021, 01:46:42 AM
I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.

TWO lolly sticks!  - that sounds extravagant

I heard it was one cocktail stick !

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 27 July 2021, 05:19:06 PM
Re: 'King George's Navy'...have been reading the Patrick O' Brian books... ('Master And Commander', etc.). Now, he seemed to 'know his stuff'... but I am amazed at some of the 'possible' capabilities of sailing ship crews in the novels!
Had always assumed that various 'bits' of mast, yards, etc. ...were 'just there'... and damage was 'jury rigged' to get to port. Are the books credible? Given the size of a Frigate, just  'where' could spares be stored? And crews fully capable of 'raising or lowering', major parts of masts as 'routine' on the high seas? Or, storing 'Carronades' etc. in the hold... until required! Much 'battle damage' repaired from shipboard supplies... or go onshore to find some timber!

Artistic license or 'semi' factual? Hard to believe, but, with woodworking artisan skills and  a couple of hundred crew... 'possible'? Anyone know?

It's amazing what you can achieve with a windlass, block and tackle, 40 sturdy jack-tars and solid timber bits.

Bear in mind that they'd weigh anchor (maybe 2 tonnes) with the Windlass, then consider the load the masts and yards bear in a strong wind.
It's like knocking up a Meccano crane, but in big scale.

The bit that astounds me is that fairly large ships retained a single carpenter for repairs.
What those guys achieved (without power tools) is quit remarkable.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 04 October 2021, 01:46:42 AM
I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.

Those were the days before sticky-backed plastic.

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 04 October 2021, 09:16:28 AM
The bit that astounds me is that fairly large ships retained a single carpenter for repairs.
What those guys achieved (without power tools) is quit remarkable.

In the days before Trust-a-Trader I suspect that a sizeable minority of the crew could sensibly be co-opted into assisting with repairs.

The blocks for the pyramids were cut with copper chisels. Our forebears made up (with time, manpower and persistence) for their lack of power tools.

Remarkable indeed.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 04 October 2021, 01:29:37 PM
In the days before Trust-a-Trader I suspect that a sizeable minority of the crew could sensibly be co-opted into assisting with repairs.

The blocks for the pyramids were cut with copper chisels. Our forebears made up (with time, manpower and persistence) for their lack of power tools.

Remarkable indeed.

FSN has pointed out that the master carpenter had up to 10 assistants (Presumably fewer on smaller ships) and it's reasonable to expect limitless numbers of able and ordinary seamen to join in with the donkey work.


I forget which TV programme descriibed the copper chisels.
Each stonemason had a relay of chisels (Copper, or even bronze is soft), and a crew of sharpeners to enure there was always at least one good chisel ready to go.

The real secret of the ancients is "Lots of people lots of time".