I shall avoid the strongly-invited response here, and merely second the suggestion that this discussion be teleported to TMP.

Like most things nicotine has some good effects. It calms people down and reduces nervous tension. For this reason it was encouraged during both WWI and WWII. The lung cancer side effect wasn't researched until the earlier 50's, and not belived (or suppresed by Imperial Tobacoo et al) for at least 20 years more.

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 03:35:02 AM
Hmm. Will make my apologies for 'shouting' and 'venting'.  

'Got to me' at 'wrong time'.

Will STILL still say that 'Persecution' of Smokers.. through Taxation or Legistration, is VILE! vile Ha! Just 'thinking about it' GETS MY RAG UP...annoys, quite a bit!  

You are not being persecuted.
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.
And everything you have complained about boils down to your own choices.

The only reason I'm responding here: I don't wish to see this forum become a home of "victim ranting" in the way that another has been uterly ruined.

I see no reason why your desire to smoke trumps my desire not to be "kippered". The health benefits of not smoking and not suffering passive smoking are well documented.

You are as free to believe the science wrong as you are to believe the world is flat .... but no amount of belief will flatten the world.

The same is true of global warming and the need, among other measures, to curb human use of fossil fuels.

That said, Steve's line ...

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 09 June 2021, 08:23:47 AM
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.

,while true, did remind me of this

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread." - Anatole France

This is not the place to air such differences, however, so I suggest we agree to disagree and concentrate on little lead men instead.

I say let the poor man unload and rant to his forum buddies if he needs to.  Vital for mental health.   Gawd knows the last 15 months have been enough for even the calmest, sanest person (me???) to lose it occasionally.  

Its a separate thread and hence our choice to read it or not.  And "blather, waffle" was presumably set up for just that purpose of providing room for our bizarre musings and opinions.

For me, this thread is significantly less tiresome than the very concept of a thread called  "Top Totty" .  

I must have a look at this TMP thingy, sounds like fun.  

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 09 June 2021, 08:23:47 AM
You are not being persecuted.
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.
And everything you have complained about boils down to your own choices.

The only reason I'm responding here: I don't wish to see this forum become a home of "victim ranting" in the way that another has been uterly ruined.

OOh!!! Yes. I know the Dogfights!  And PenD IS Friendly.
However..'.Argument Issue' means that I cannot concede/accept and leave the field without a Dogfight...
But...  Oh S ! Bl**dy Well Will ! Means a lot
Every citizen pays taxes . Smokers pay VAT on purchase.  Fair enough. Choice. BUT 'Health Lobby' has enabled Gov't to Hike  'Duty' to 'Drug Dealer' Levels.. £10 + for a product that could be sold for  £3 !!!  On an automatic Budget  'Escalator'! Choice, yes... But Smokers CHOOSE.
'Religion' is also a 'choice' I do NOT  give a Damn what religion anyone follows... but what sort of 'society'  'segregates', 'excludes' and selectively imposes financial 'penalties'... with possible 'offences' that do not accord with 'Laws' passed without consent'?
We ARE persecuted! We cannot, NOW, persue what was OUR normal LIFE and have been 'segregated','excluded' and 'penalised'.. seen that somewhere?
"without prejudice"... LOL ! Choice...yes... MINE!
OK, maybe I should not have brought up a 'controversial' subject'... MY 'Bad'... so best 'break off' and  'leave it', but I am NOT shot down.

Thanks to some posts... this is a 'Good Place'.  
With apologies to ALL... have realised that I have NOT been to sleep!    And little for 2 previous.
Argument points Still Stand, though. Been There for 10 + years! 'Wider Issues' about 'society'... will be there for a LOT Longer. 

Was half way through editing last post... then could not alter...timed out.
Pub Smoking Ban lost a LOT of regulars. Gained some. BUT... PUB Trade has  been decilining  since. There were Rises/Falls before... but Pubs  were There.. and so were 'regulars'!
Staff always 'Had the choice'... might not have liked it... but seen a LOT of GOOD Bar Staff! Those that did not accept things...'went their own way'.
I only lasted 3 days... but now't to do with smoking!

POINT is... a 'right' was just 'Taken Away'. OK.. a 'right to Clean Air' replaced... BUT that DOES NOT MEAN that MY right should have been TAKEN. I do not remember anyone LOUDLY saying hat this would be an 'Election Pledge'? Would have Voted Against! lol

From being a 'Pub Regular', 'standing at Bar', maybe 5 nights a week... went to 2-3 nights a YEAR. Yet MY consumption of both  Tabs and Booze grew massively. No WIN at all for ME... and TOTAL loss of Social Contact.. apart from FB and Forae. Very Sad Case.
So, apologies for Rant... but Smoking ban was WRONG!

Also: Do NOT believe Stats! As an ex Student, I KNOW that they can be 'shifted' to imoly 'Whatever / Whoever' WANTS them to show. Smoker /Drinkers will NOT provide ACCURATE info anyway... so 'Health' stats are  utter B****cks. Of course, 'Adjustments' are made... BUT That is FAKE data! As a HEAVY Smoker/Drinker, I should not be here... and many of those who worked in a  'Smokey' environment, wouldn't be able to read this... IF you believe Stats! lol.  

My mother has been a heavy smoker since 15 years old, probably 40-60 per day.  This continued right through pregnancy resulting in me being severely underweight and being taken to intensive care at birth for collapsed lungs.  They even got the hospital chaplain to come and do the last rites as they didn't expect me to last the night.  I've still got the scar now from the tubing they put into my lungs.

On the pubs, you're right that it was a choice to work in that environment but students need money!  And then it became a career so I had to put up with it.  But as a pub customer I would avoid going into them (and nightclubs or restaurants) because of the smoky atmosphere.  So I suppose it depends where the balance is between smokers who won't go as they can't smoke versus non-smokers who won't go into that environment.

Sounds to me like another rant from another member of an entitled minority.

ONS statistics for 2019 indicate that the percentage of smokers in the UK population over the age of 18 was 14.1%, continuing an existing decline.
(https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/adultsmokinghabitsingreatbritain/2019)

Despite this they continue to demand the right to pollute the air for the other 85.9%.  I too worked in pubs before the ban and now relish not smelling of someone else's smoke because I've the effrontery to go for a pint.

I have never been a cigarette smoker but did enjoy a decent cigar 2-3 times a year, i.e. rugby club dinner etc.. I have mates who nip out for 5 minutes for a quick ciggie but it always seemed a bit anti-social to nip out for 40 minutes for a quick half corona, so the cigars got knocked on the head.  

We had a bloke in our building - you know, back in the old days when we used to work in an office in town - that would pop out for a quick pull on his pipe twice a day.

I remember being taught to play chess in our pub - my parents ran one when I was a child - by a bloke who puffed away on a pipe as well.

Not something you see much nowadays.

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 12:07:51 AM
Going into or working in a pub or smokey workplace was a Choice. The 'right was There and had always been for 30 years of my life,
Then, TAKEN AWAY without any consent by me... just 'the Powers acting on Stats and going by Their view.

I have never been able to resume MY old 'comfort' in a pub snce... and MY smoking went UP!

As I have said, Smoking has been proven to be a poor health choice .

So you are saying I should have  effectively been barred from entering any so called public place if I did not want to inhale another Persons  smoke.  What about MY CHOICE  to enjoy a beer / meal / Film  without the smoke?

The 1980's poster used to put it very accurately.

Thank you for not Smoking

Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure,
It contaminates the air and pollutes my hair and clothes.
This all takes place without my consent

I have a pleasure also, I like a Beer now and then
The residue of my pleasurer is urine.
Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and urinated all over your clothes and hair, without your consent

Quote from: Orcs on 09 June 2021, 05:52:58 PM

Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and urinated all over your clothes and hair, without your consent

It would just be the standing on the chair thing that would annoy me I mean people have to sit on them and you go and stick your big feet all over them.

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 01:00:29 PM
Was half way through editing last post... then could not alter...timed out.
Pub Smoking Ban lost a LOT of regulars. Gained some. BUT... PUB Trade has  been decilining  since. There were Rises/Falls before... but Pubs  were There.. and so were 'regulars'!
Staff always 'Had the choice'... might not have liked it... but seen a LOT of GOOD Bar Staff! Those that did not accept things...'went their own way'.
I only lasted 3 days... but now't to do with smoking!

POINT is... a 'right' was just 'Taken Away'. OK.. a 'right to Clean Air' replaced... BUT that DOES NOT MEAN that MY right should have been TAKEN. I do not remember anyone LOUDLY saying hat this would be an 'Election Pledge'? Would have Voted Against! lol

From being a 'Pub Regular', 'standing at Bar', maybe 5 nights a week... went to 2-3 nights a YEAR. Yet MY consumption of both  Tabs and Booze grew massively. No WIN at all for ME... and TOTAL loss of Social Contact.. apart from FB and Forae. Very Sad Case.
So, apologies for Rant... but Smoking ban was WRONG!

Also: Do NOT believe Stats! As an ex Student, I KNOW that they can be 'shifted' to imoly 'Whatever / Whoever' WANTS them to show. Smoker /Drinkers will NOT provide ACCURATE info anyway... so 'Health' stats are  utter B****cks. Of course, 'Adjustments' are made... BUT That is FAKE data! As a HEAVY Smoker/Drinker, I should not be here... and many of those who worked in a  'Smokey' environment, wouldn't be able to read this... IF you believe Stats! lol.  

Are you f***ing serious?

Have you seen what smokers lungs like? In person?

Quote from: Norm on 09 June 2021, 06:21:46 PM
It would just be the standing on the chair thing that would annoy me I mean people have to sit on them and you go and stick your big feet all over them.

Totally agree, Plus kids in shopping trolleys with thier shoes on really annoys me, Putting the soles of thier shoes  that have trod in goodness knows what where the next person hat to put their food.