Quote from: flamingpig0 on 30 May 2021, 08:19:02 PM
There was the London fleet of water cannons as well

And we should have kept them for all the marches/riot's during last years lockdown

Quote from: Raider4 on 30 May 2021, 07:31:20 PM
The Americans are currently buying/building a new fleet of "Marine One" helicopters at about $205 million each, so £200 million for one large boat seems not too bad.

Still not needed though. Another one of Boris's 'distraction' plans. See also Boris Island, the Thames Garden Bridge.

A couple of months back it was a tunnel complex under the Irish Sea.

Hands up, who thinks the final cost will be anything close to £200 million.

Quote from: Orcs on 30 May 2021, 08:34:13 PM
And we should have kept them for all the marches/riot's during last years lockdown

We ?

Quote from: Orcs on 30 May 2021, 08:34:13 PM
And we should have kept them for all the marches/riot's during last years lockdown

Yeah, but "somebody" neglected to purchase parts and maintenance when be bought them on a whim. Details, details.

 In its favour the Prince Phillip Yacht would have almost the same amount of offensive airpower as our second  'aircraft carrier' all for a fraction of the cost. 

Water cannons are illegal in the UK.

Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 31 May 2021, 08:41:58 AM
Water cannons are illegal in the UK.

Strangely it was Theresa May who banned them

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/19/boris-johnson-unused-water-cannon-sold-for-scrap-at-300000-loss

The 'fleet' of water cannon was a VERY sensible precaution. Recent events  proven. But, popular 'politics' and 'sense' do not always agree.  
if the 'rules' don't fit the occurrence, then it is the 'rules' that need to be 'reviewed'...

As wargamers, it does seem a tad odd that some have forgotten what weapons are for, and triumphalist nationalism doesn't really seem to be getting anyone anywhere, other than having to deal with the smouldering rubble afterwards, be it real or metaphorical. In reality the Wright brothers destroyed the need for national borders. It lingers in Britain because it is an island. I'm always surprised that the British don't look more closely at the Northern Ireland land border to realise its futility.

Quote from: Leman on 31 May 2021, 09:02:10 AM
As wargamers, it does seem a tad odd that some have forgotten what weapons are for, and triumphalist nationalism doesn't really seem to be getting anyone anywhere, other than having to deal with the smouldering rubble afterwards, be it real or metaphorical. In reality the Wright brothers destroyed the need for national borders. It lingers in Britain because it is an island. I'm always surprised that the British don't look more closely at the Northern Ireland land border to realise its futility.

Weapons are for kiling. 'Remove figs or knock them over' and they are still DEAD men.... WITH consequences. There will always be smouldering rubble,,, which will reignite...again and again. The point about a 'weapon' is... if you have it...and the other guy 'thinks' that you might use it... he might think twice before using his.
'Triumphalist Nationalism' worked...when you could 'send a gunboat' to send a 'message' Now... airstrikes / drone strikes/ nukes are the same deal as a sword. It does not HAVE to be drawn... it is for 'display'...unless...
If the Wright brothers could have fore-seen Dresden or Nagasaki, they wouldn't have tried... but THEY DID. And, yes, they destroyed 'borders'... they  made 'The Game' much bigger and more horrifying... but that is what happens... not their fault.
As for the Irish border... most people just want to get along, but SOME do not.

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 31 May 2021, 10:19:35 AM

'Triumphalist Nationalism' worked.

No it didn't see the 1940s

Quote from: flamingpig0 on 31 May 2021, 10:31:12 AM
No it didn't see the 1940s

Agreed.
Also 1914... and before... and 1950s on... Nationalism IS 'natural'... it is Tribal, Speciesist... it will NEVER go away. What we HAVE to do is to negate iit somewhat... and, seeing as NO-ONE will be making swords into plaughshares anytime  soon... axes to grind aren't getting  anyone anywhere, either.

Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 31 May 2021, 08:41:58 AM
Water cannons are illegal in the UK.

They are not 'illegal', but their use requires Ministerial authorisation.

Water cannon are authorised for use in Northern Ireland, still part of the UK.

The Home Secretary's decision in 2015 was against authorisation for England and Wales and the Scottish Assembly Justice and Home Affairs spokesperson said that Scottish Ministers would not authorise their use either.

I find it hard to believe they would have been useful this year given their wonderful record of preventing rioting and violence in NI.

The Irish I know would proudly say that you couldn't control them with nukes!

Quote from: FierceKitty on 31 May 2021, 12:25:50 PM
The Irish I know would proudly say that you couldn't control them with nukes!

The RUC who got into my 'local' pub 1980s were 'relatively' well behaved.... MOST of the time... but NOT to be messed with! Still, they were 'on holliday'... on a 'course.'.. so  'best let them be' ! (Who would want what They had to LIVE with?).