Also check the Initiative actions and what is in range for your Tanks 

Shell it, and smoke of course !

All will happen when its the Allied turn but if the PAK is firing from some distance I cannot see how the non phasing player can intervene until the German has finished. Am I missing something?

OPertunity fire may well help.

As Ian states the moment after the PAK fires - all tanks within LoS and range (that are not suppressed or knocked-out) can shoot back using opportunity fire. T
hey can do this after the PAK has fired its initial Commanded order (assuming the Command unit passes the Command roll)* - so before the 2nd order to shoot can be issued by the German HQ.

*if the German HQ commanding the HQ fails their initial Command roll, there is no Opportunity fire possible as the PAK has fired no shots for the tanks to react to. In these circumstances you could choose to use the German CO to attempt to order the PAK to shoot again (but he is on a -1 to his CV to make this order).

NB: If the PAK is within its Initiative range its initial shot does not require a Command order - as the crew are assumed to shoot using their own close range initiative.

Thanks for this clarification. My difficulty was that I was looking at the piece on Opportunity Fire on Page 20 without reading on to Opportunity Fire on page 37. All is now clear. Or clearer.
So, assuming that there are some Shermans left after the first rounds from the two PAK 88, which there are, the surviving Shermans have the opportunity to pop smoke. But what does that do to protect them?
Does it
a: totally obscure them from the wicked PAK?
or
b: reduce the hit roll for the PAK next shot, assuming that they pass the command roll?
And then,
If the German manages to roll below his command requirement for several rolls, and thereby has the opportunity for several shots, does the smoke last as long as the German command roll or does it dissipate after one phase? (My knowledge of smoke dispenser availability on Shermans is vague).
Finally, how many times can an FAO call down fire from a battery in one turn? If the player is fortunate enough to keep beating his reducing command roll, can he order the battery to fire again? Or are the guners prostrated by their earlier efforts and in need of a nice cup of tea?

Shermans had a small proportion of 75mm rounds as smoke and had a 2" bomb thrower in the roof,

Thanks for this. So it sounds as though the Sherman has a better ability to drench the opponent with smoke than to cover itself. The smoke projectors that every Cold War A vehicle had came later then I suppose. And of course, it being white phosphorous, having WP shot at you generates burning stuff that sticks rather than just smoke.
However, the ability of the low profile anti tank guns to escape detection remains an issue.

If the 88's have fired and the Shermans can see them and are in range they can fire back.
The 88's are harder to hit - as they are in a defensive position - but if you have 2 or more Shermans - some (1) can fire live ammo (HE) at the 88's (don't forget your +1 d:6 for being under half range & also for your MGs) and then others can fire Smoke at the 88's - which if successful would mask the 88's from firing on the Shermans in their next game turns.

It is a risk to shoot at the 88's - as the Smoke shells might miss. But the Shermans putting smoke out on themselves, whilst guaranteed to happen, just ends up with a stalemate situation, as the Shermans cannot see the 88's (& vice versa) but the moment the Shermans move (in their game turn) the 88's get opportunity fire.  So unless you have a plan to flank the 88's with something else (infantry ideally) or drop artillery on them - it is probably worth trying to suppress or knock out the 88's. Remember just 1 successful hit could result in suppression.
Remember, this is a combined arms game - so infantry mortars - sighted by the Shermans nearest the 88's - are also potentially very effective.

Also remember to mark your Shermans to show they have made an Opportunity fire action - as that adversely effects Commanding them in their next game turn.

BTW - 2 x 88's are a formidable defensive arrangement, especially if dug-in! The range alone makes then really difficult to get at by armour.

Sounds like you are having fun 

Thanks for this Big Insect. I will have to think the sequencing through carefully.
Given that the 88s are well cammed up, I would think it is not a foregone conclusion that they will be spotted the first time they fire. I am going to be rolling more dice than in a Warhammer game at this rate!

Also remember if your 88's fire. every tank will roll to try and view them.
also if you have a forward observer for air or artillery they can try and spot. Same goes for any Recce.
88's dug in are formidable but if you total up how many eyes will be looking for them. then they will soon be seen.
Regards
Sean

Quote from: holdfast on 27 January 2021, 11:03:41 AM
Thanks for this Big Insect. I will have to think the sequencing through carefully.
Given that the 88s are well cammed up, I would think it is not a foregone conclusion that they will be spotted the first time they fire. I am going to be rolling more dice than in a Warhammer game at this rate!

Don't get Ian on about massed dice rolling - in a previous CWC game us NATO types were rolling 66 artillery dice (per unit in the off-table artillery template) on the advancing Soviet hordes - after a while Ian gave up attempting to make the saving rolls 

That was Ben - not me. It's technically possible in BKC with Mike (Divisional) and Uncle (Corp) assets. That for a Mike would give you 72 25pdrs and possibly 16 5,5"

Also remember if your 88's fire. every tank will roll to try and view them.

Well it depends how many have a line of sight and at this stage the Canadian tanks are all closed down, and of course everyone is on their first outing.
I concluded that after the first rounds from the PAK that two tanks were in a position to spot them. I rolled to see whether either managed to spot either of the PAK. One did (rolled 5 or 6 to spot) and one didn't. The tank that had spotted the PAK fired smoke at it which blanketed it in smoke. So the second PAK had another shot which took out a Sherman. The one tank that was still in a position to spot the second PAK rolled to spot, this time needing 4,5,6 to spot. He succeeded and then fired smoke and blanketed off the second PAK.
That all seems a reasonable set of factors, although I wonder if they really were so good at spotting when closed down. My own experience of being in a Ferret made me feel very blinkered. 

Yes - but remember each table top model/unit is a number of tanks (just as the 88's each represents a 'battery') so it is not unreasonable that one or more tanks will spot the discharge from the 88's or be able to spot the track of the in-coming shells hitting their comrades.

But I think the way it is playing out sounds pretty good from a historic as well as a game-play perspective.

It's enjoyable to get a 'blow-by-blow' move-by-move play-test like this - thank you - keep it coming 

I have written up the saga of the PAKs, which I found instructive, but have been defeated by the 128 k limit on attachments. I will have another go later.

Here is the narrative I tried to post yesterday, without the photos all of which are over the 128kb limit.
I will resize them and post them in the next couple of days which will allow folk to make sense of the rambling text.

1.   Canadian Situation Start of Turn Six
The Canadian Attack is as follows:
A Company; West. Two platoons, seven tanks (one FAO, one crocodile, one flail, 4 Sherman)
They have closed up to the wall and have suppressed the two bunkers covering the beach. A marked minefield has a breach started but the sappers have been killed so it is incomplete. One other infantry squad has been killed and one Sherman has been knocked out on the exit ramp from the beach.
The third platoon is disembarking with one Sherman and one crocodile.

Photo 1. The five tanks on the right are supporting A Coy. One Sherman has just been knocked out by the PAK 75 beyond the row of trees.

B Company, Centre, opposite the town. Two platoons, eight tanks (one FAO, one flail, 6 Sherman), one air link vehicle (soft skinned).
They have suppressed the central bunker with naval gun fire which also took out one engineer squad when it dropped short. They have also suppressed the bunker at the northeast corner of the village. No mines have been encountered but the sea wall has yet to be breached. One infantry squad has been killed and one AVRE was knocked out as it attempted to exit up the beach ramp.
The third platoon is disembarking with one Sherman.

Photo 2: The situation in the centre. The bunker has been neutralised by Naval Gunfire but its effects also took out a sapper squad.

C Company, East. Two platoons, two tanks (both Sherman).
They have encountered only light opposition. (they are facing only one platoon here and it suffered in the pre-landing bombardment. They have avoided a minefield and have suppressed the one bunker at the eastern end of the sea wall. They have lost one infantry squad so far.
The third platoon is disembarking with one Sherman and one AVRE.

Photo 3: The eastern beach exit, where the lead AVRE has been brewed up after neutralising the bunker at close range.

The Canadian Move
A Company: On the right the infantry followed a lone Sherman against the most westerly bunker, suppressing it. In the first the tanks gave suppressing fire while the infantry caught up. That group only managed two moves. The third platoon disembarks in the surf with two tanks as reinforcements. On the left, the main force with 5 tanks including the crocodile gave covering fire while the Crocodile got close enough to flame the bunker guarding the beach exit. Part of the bunker garrison perished the rest pulled back through the tunnels into the town. Then all advanced, the tanks pouring through the beach ramp. The lead Sherman got to the area where the road had been cratered earlier by Naval Gunfire and moved west into the fields, then hitting the unmarked minefield where it took one hit. This group, under the Company Commander, managed four moves before failing its command roll.

Photo 4: The Crocodile warms up the bunker, the survivors of the garrison make their excuses and leave.

B Company: On the right three tanks with a platoon advance against the (empty) central bunker and neutralise it. They manage two moves. The reinforcements disembark. On the left are four tanks with three squads. They all advance and the tanks exit the beach. At the last minute the lead tank spots the PAK 75 at the southeast corner of the village but the move then ends.

Photo 5: the flail tank spots the PAK 75 in the bunker but fails its command roll and cannot engage

C Company: Here the Canadian have two platoons with two tanks and they are almost kicking at an open goal. However, they make quite a meal of it. On the left the infantry advance on the bunker which contains one MG, using fire and movement. They also blow a hole in the sea wall, although the tanks are off to the right and cannot easily take advantage of it. Nonetheless the infantry storms the bunker and consolidate around it. The Reinforcements disembark. The Company commander wants to direct the two tanks near the beach exit to support the infantry at the breach but they fail their command roll, giving some respite to the thinly stretched German defenders who have just one squad with MG and mortars left after taking casualties earlier. They also have an FAO but his comms don't seem to be working. The only asset left to the Germans in this sector is the unmarked minefield in front of the Canadians.

The German Situation
The Germans have two platoons in the town and to the west under one HQ, and one platoon in the fields east of the town. The company HQ is on the hill to the south, with the two PAK 88, two 105 SP guns and two 222 recce under command.
The German Move
The Town Garrison: On the first move the forward squad plus mortars fire at the infantry to the front and both PAK 75 fire at the lead tank coming off the beach. All hit, one Sherman is hit but not suppressed, one is hit and suppressed. One Canadian squad is hit once and saves it on a six, being up against the sea wall. The Garrison then fails its command roll.
The Group in the fields: The FAO calls for artillery fire but doesn't get through. The remaining troops, one squad, one mortar and one MG all fire at the advancing infantry which suppresses one squad. They pass the second command roll and suppress a second squad, before failing the command roll.

Photo 6: the Germans are barely holding but the Canadians haven't found the unmarked minefield, marked by the black pins, yet.

The Company HQ Group: This group called for artillery fire and received it, so fired at the infantry in the centre approaching the town. Four squads found themselves under fire, two were suppressed but no units were eliminated. The two Recce 222 moved to the east as a backstop and took up positions to fire into the flank. The two PAK fired at one Sherman each. The Sherman in the minefield took an extra hit and was suppressed. The Sherman on its outer flank took two hits but wasn't suppressed. Two tanks had line of sight to the PAK. One PAK was spotted and smothered in smoke, the other wasn't spotted and had a second shot at the Sherman on the flank. This took two more hits which weren't saved and the Sherman brewed up.

Photo 7: Halfway through the PAK 88 vs Sherman action. The lead Sherman is suppressed in the minefield, one PAK has been smoked off the second PAK has destroyed the Sherman to the left but two more Shermans are on overwatch and then locate and smoke off the second PAK.

A further tank managed to spot the second PAK and fired smoke. Meanwhile the first German reinforcements trudged onto the board and the Company HQ managed a further 3 command rolls, during which time they repositioned one PAK 88 under cover of the smoke. While all this is going on the first German reinforcements arrive at the south end of the board and trudge forward.

That concluded a complicated move where I learned a lot.

Here are Photos 1 and 2 as mentioned in the previous post

Sounds great. It really captures the chaos of an unexpected marine assault.

One observation - the Recce 222s - if they are classified as Recce units they can only shoot in self defense. But you could classify them as Recce support - allowing you to change their abilities between recce and a normal AC unit (on a successful Command at the start of your game turn). If they change their designation they must stick to that throughout the whole game turn. If that makes sense. Check out Recce and Recce Support sections.

PS: I cannot post photos but maybe one of the other kind folk might offer you a hand to post them?

Cheers
Mark

Good advice from BI the moderator, (so named on account of his moderate IT skills I hear, as opposed to my IT skills which are sub optimal.)
Here are Photos 3 and 4.