painting Napoleonic French in 10mm

Started by Nirnman, 12 November 2020, 07:20:40 PM

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Nirnman

I wish to access the group mind and ask for some advice.
While normally  I paint 15and 28mm figures I have taken part in the Peninsular Non-Kickstarter ordering a British and Portuguese force.
While waiting for delivery of said figures I have ordered figures for an opposing French force.
Normally I use Vallejo Prussian or dark Prussian blue for troops in blue uniforms and I started painting them by using, as an alternative,
Golden Acrylic Ultramarine which is a lighter shade to work with the smaller scale figures. However, it still seems a shade too dark and
this is especially apparent as I sit here once again watching Waterloo the film and remembering the weekly reruns of Sharpe on Saturday morning TV
where the French infantry and a lot of the cavalry all seem to be wearing a much lighter shade of blue as compared to the reference material which I am using.
Can anyone give me advice on what they use for French blue uniform jackets in 1omm scale?
All and any advice would be much appreciated.

jimduncanuk

I've used anything and everything from Foundry Union Blue or Foundry Prussian Blue to Coat d'Arms Marine Blue in all scales and sizes. Smaller should be lighter but I do dry brush and ink-wash a lot.
My Ego forbids a signature.

Westmarcher

My apologies for not being in a position to recommend any particular shade of blue. I used to have a French Napoleonic army (long since sold) and naively used Humbrol French Blue - so wrong! But if ever start a new French Napoleonic collection, I do know that it will be a very dark blue.

Why? Having seen so many different shades on TV and in movies, I eventually concluded that the best source to consult would be the artists who actually lived during these times and saw the uniforms first hand. I therefore recommend you seek out the work of the following and try to match your ultimate choice of blue to the following examples:-

Jacques-Louis David
https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-emperor-napoleon-in-his-study-at-the-tuileries/zQEbF0AA9NhCXQ?hl=en-GB
Emile Jean Horacle Vernet
https://prof-pirola.medium.com/napoleon-a-biography-through-the-propaganda-paintings-cf144af9860f
Claude Gautherot
https://www.greatbigcanvas.com/view/napoleon-i-haranguing-his-troops-before-the-attack-of-augsburg-by-claude-gautherot,2311343/

.... and possibly Francois Gerard and Antoine-Jean Gros.

I'm not a "the smaller the scale, the lighter the shade" believer myself - I think you'll find that there is enough colour on the facings, plumes, breaches, bayonets, helmets, breastplates, etc. that will make your figures stand out and look really authentic.



I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Waremblem

I've been painting French for 20 years, and while I haven't done any in 10mm, my experiences have led me to conclude - dark blue for Guard, Union (although that is a dispute in its own right!) blue for the line with white breeches and French blue if you're pairing it with trousers, especially brown ones. For lights, I like a rich blue - I know that's not a color, but think Ultramarine blue since it covers the whole figure jacket and breeches and you want some depth. You don't want to go too dark or too light here.

hammurabi70

Quote from: Westmarcher on 12 November 2020, 11:26:10 PM
My apologies for not being in a position to recommend any particular shade of blue. I used to have a French Napoleonic army (long since sold) and naively used Humbrol French Blue - so wrong! But if ever start a new French Napoleonic collection, I do know that it will be a very dark blue.

I'm not a "the smaller the scale, the lighter the shade" believer myself - I think you'll find that there is enough colour on the facings, plumes, breaches, bayonets, helmets, breastplates, etc. that will make your figures stand out and look really authentic.


I am reading this with interest. 

Darker than Prussian Blue?  I agree that it is more like that than Royal Blue!  How does it compare to Portuguese or Spanish Blue and the blue in other armies the French fought, so they avoided confusion and fraternal blue-on-blue conflict.  Today I started my own Peninsular War armies ... in 2mm.  I am not sure if facings, plumes, breaches, bayonets, helmets, breastplates, etc. that will make your figures stand out and look really authentic will apply at 2mm.

[Picture pigment fades and darkens over time, whatever that might imply].

Nirnman

Many thanks for all our advice. I  think I agree with Westmarcher and will keep on doing them the way is as
A) it is the style of the picture references he gave and
B) it is also in accord with the reference material I was also working from.
I had been worried as it was the first attempt to paint Blue in this scale as I have forces for the LOA and SYW.
these, however, are either wearing Red, Grey, White or other such colours (admittedly I haven't done any Dutch Blue Guards as yet for much the same reason)
I might just give a slight highlight to the blue if  67&year old eyesight is good enough for, even with aids, not to make a hash of it.
All the advice received has been most helpful as I tackle this  latest project thank you one amdall.

hammurabi70

I am not sure what that means in terms of choice of colour. I would welcome comments on:

VAL807 Oxford blue for French
VAL965 Prussian blue for Prussian
VAL7020 Imperial blue for Portuguese
VAL930 Dark blue for Polish

In addition, looking ahead:
VAL72090 Inky Black Green for Russian
VAL992 Neutral grey as used universally in Europe for trousers on campaign

Never having done Napoleonic troops before I am unaware of any basic understanding of default paint colours for the troops.

Westmarcher

Quote from: hammurabi70 on 13 November 2020, 12:24:37 AM
Darker than Prussian Blue?  I agree that it is more like that than Royal Blue!  How does it compare to Portuguese or Spanish Blue and the blue in other armies the French fought, so they avoided confusion and fraternal blue-on-blue conflict.  Today I started my own Peninsular War armies ... in 2mm.  I am not sure if facings, plumes, breaches, bayonets, helmets, breastplates, etc. that will make your figures stand out and look really authentic will apply at 2mm.

[Picture pigment fades and darkens over time, whatever that might imply].

I didn't take any issue with Jim's recommendations. I do sometimes look at many movie uniform colours however with some disdain (e.g., the French artillery crew uniforms in Gregory Peck's Hornblower). I use Vallejo Dark Prussian Blue for my own SYW Prussians and Union figures and, at the time of my post, I thought Jim's recommendations were worthy of consideration but I didn't at any point recommend any particular paint product. Rather than rely on movies and TV, I merely pointed Nirnman in a particular direction for him to make his own mind up when painting his 10mm figures (btw, who the hell is going to paint any detail on 2mm and why would you need a lighter shade so that such tiny figures stand out?). Agreed you've always got to view old paintings with care. I can only say many do get professionally cleaned up now and again and the results can be spectacular but I confess I do not know if any of the examples (and any others Nirnman cares, if at all, to look for) I provided links to, have received such treatment. However, I do get some confidence in going for a very dark blue (whatever that is) when I also compare these to later Franco-Prussian War uniforms and paintings, photographs of today's French Presidential Guard and the research of the artists whose illustrations appear in my Osprey books on French Guard and Line infantry.   

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.