I'm not sure this is the right area for this, apologies if that's the case.

I'm starting to put things together for my next project which will be a couple of Napoleonic armies for DBN (De Bellis Napoleonic).

My problem is I don't have a lot of knowledge of either Napoleonic history or DBN.

I'd like to start with some kinda generic armies that I can eventually add to in order to morph them into DBN armies but I really have no clue as to what I should be looking at or ordering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Ken

I don't know what DBN is but I suggest you decide on a particular Napoleonic campaign, look at the OB for a specific battle from that campaign and make a choice from that.  This was a particularly dynamic period and there is no such thing a a generic army.  The Division is generally the smallest formation where you'll find all the arms represented.

I agree - Napoleonic as a wargaming era is huge. Pick a campaign or theatre of war and work out from that.

I like the Egyptian Campaign and the Peninsular myself - as both lend themselves to smaller forces and more interesting terrain & IMHO more interesting battles (plus some crazy hats in Egypt) - but a lot of people play the big battles era - with the French & 'allies' fighting the Russians and German States.

I had never heard of DBN myself but one of the challenges with Napoleonics is finding a good rules set.
But if DBN is like DBA - then you shouldn't have that big an army to have to field.

I should really 'do' Waterloo as I had a relative (a great, great, great etc. grandfather) that fought there - as an officer in the 1st Foot Guards defending Hougoumont.

Quote from: Ken on 04 November 2020, 10:17:15 PM
I'm starting to put things together for my next project which will be a couple of Napoleonic armies for DBN (De Bellis Napoleonic).

My problem is I don't have a lot of knowledge of either Napoleonic history or DBN.

Probably better to gain more knowledge of both before making any significant investment. There are loads of Napoleonic books and rules out there. Why DBN?

Quote from: John Cook on 04 November 2020, 10:42:00 PM
I don't know what DBN is but I suggest you decide on a particular Napoleonic campaign, look at the OB for a specific battle from that campaign and make a choice from that.

@John (& Big Insect). DBN is a Napoleonic variant of De Bellis Antiquitatis. Here's a YouTube link and a link to a DBN Wargaming website.
@Ken. There's some free downloads with OOBs on the website.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVoHFmW8csY
https://dbnwargaming.weebly.com

Quote from: Westmarcher on 04 November 2020, 11:09:47 PM
Probably better to gain more knowledge of both before making any significant investment. There are loads of Napoleonic books and rules out there. Why DBN?


@John (& Big Insect). DBN is a Napoleonic variant of De Bellis Antiquitatis. Here's a YouTube link and a link to a DBN Wargaming website.
@Ken. There's some free downloads with OOBs on the website.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVoHFmW8csY
https://dbnwargaming.weebly.com

I'm a fan of DBA and know it reasonably well and enjoy the quick games, I am a solo player and the small foot print and small army size are big bonuses. I've looked at starting this project a few times in the past but there is so much info out there it's overwhelming just trying to figure out where to start.

As has been said, you really need to pick a period within the wars but with DBN you not be refighting historical battles (correct me if I'm wrong!).

The French fought everybody, OK, not completely true but so close to it that it makes sense that they're one of the armies.

Early on they made up for in enthusiasm what they lacked in training. As the wars went on they got better but, inevitably, losses due to fighting everyone else took their toll on the French army.

For the other army the main opponents are British, Prussians, Austrians, Russians, Spanish and Ottomans. They are often in coalition together but, initially at least, I'd say pick one.

British armies were small but professional and competent.

Prussian and Austrian armies started out rather old-fashioned but tended to get better as time went on.

Russians were dogged rather than dashing but had sizeable manpower and lots of space to trade for time.

Spanish armies were not always enthusiastic ... or successful.

Ottoman armies I know next to nothing about so I'll leave them to others.

A bit of reading should give a feel for the look and tactical style of the armies. Pick one you like the look of. With DBN even if you have all of the possible options so you can ring the changes you are unlikely to break the bank.

I look forward to reading how you get on. Pictures are always popular here too.

I would suggest building for the 1809 campaign. Why 1809? Well, I'm glad you asked. First, the uniforms change among the armies over the period. 1809 generally gives you a happy medium. Second, the French army begins to use a lot of German allies. This allows you to build multiple armies while making the same army so you don't get bored painting a bunch of French line. Third, pre-1809 the French are simply better than everyone else and have a decided edge on the tabletop. Fourth, the 1809 campaign is comprehensively documented in the Thunder on the Danube series which really a wargamer's dream. Fifth this era lends itself well to linked campaign play. Finally, the Austrian Archduke Charles is one of the more interesting (and competent) opponents to face Napoleon.

With this in mind, I suggest building the French Army along with an allied contingent of either Bavarians, Saxons, or Italians. After reading up on 1809 you'll have a better idea if you want to replicate the Viceroy Eugene in Italy, the vain Bernadotte with his Saxons, or the King of Bavaria (the largest of the Napoleonic satellite states in Germany). Their opponents will be the Austrian Army.

These core armies will serve you well outside this era as well. Austria fought the French in 1805 and in 1813/14. If you progress further beyond this you could add Russias to pair with Austrians (which works for 1805 and 13/14). 

Thank you Ithoriel, that gives me a bit of a quick start. I appreciate it.

Quote from: Waremblem on 05 November 2020, 01:17:10 AM
I would suggest building for the 1809 campaign. Why 1809? Well, I'm glad you asked. First, the uniforms change among the armies over the period. 1809 generally gives you a happy medium. Second, the French army begins to use a lot of German allies. This allows you to build multiple armies while making the same army so you don't get bored painting a bunch of French line. Third, pre-1809 the French are simply better than everyone else and have a decided edge on the tabletop. Fourth, the 1809 campaign is comprehensively documented in the Thunder on the Danube series which really a wargamer's dream. Fifth this era lends itself well to linked campaign play. Finally, the Austrian Archduke Charles is one of the more interesting (and competent) opponents to face Napoleon.

With this in mind, I suggest building the French Army along with an allied contingent of either Bavarians, Saxons, or Italians. After reading up on 1809 you'll have a better idea if you want to replicate the Viceroy Eugene in Italy, the vain Bernadotte with his Saxons, or the King of Bavaria (the largest of the Napoleonic satellite states in Germany). Their opponents will be the Austrian Army.

These core armies will serve you well outside this era as well. Austria fought the French in 1805 and in 1813/14. If you progress further beyond this you could add Russias to pair with Austrians (which works for 1805 and 13/14). 

Thank you, that sounds like a decent plan to start with. If I start with the French for 1809, what figures should I be looking at, pendraken has a lot of 1809 French listed.

The basis of every army is going to be line infantry so NPF 1-3. Historically, the weather was awful for large stretches of this campaign so many of the soldiers would have fought in greatcoats. Although not every gamer likes figures in greatcoats. I didn't at first but when I painted up my Waterloo French I rather grew to like them. If you find you like greatcoats NPF4-5.

During this era, a French division having 2 line brigades and 1 light would be fairly common. NPF 6-7 for the lights. Now, what are voltigeurs and grenadiers? Well, each French battalion would have a voltigeur and a grenadier company. For gaming purposes, the voltigeurs had high plumes and in this era, the grenadiers had a form of bearskin although they were transitioning to the shako as well so it's unclear if they actually wore bearskins in 1809. At this scale, you may want to put them in with your line or infantry or you could use them as Young Guard figures.

What is the Young Guard? Napoleon had an elite corps of Guard troops containing an Old, Middle and Young Guard. I wouldn't worry too much about them yet and concentrate on building up a solid core of line and light infantry.

French corps would contain a division of light cavalry. Those will be NPF17 or NPF18. The Dragoons, Cuirassiers, and Carabiniers would be in the Cavalry Reserve Corps, again not something you need to worry about until you have built up the core army. You'll also have attached artillery so that would be NPF27.

I'd look up Marshals Lannes, Massena, and Davout who were the three primary Corps commanders for Napoleon in 1809. Whichever one you like the best, their OOB of is readily available and I'd build out to make that. Bernadotte commanded Saxons in 1809 with a small number of French.

You could always do the 1812 Anglo-Swedish War.
Casulites 30 Swedish civilians killed by their own cavalry during a riot!

I think you should seriously consider buying the rules first to get a feel for what your figures requirement is. The link to the DBN website I gave you has a number of free downloads which include various historical battles (e.g., Battle of Vittoria 1813) or segments of the same (e.g. Hougoumont at Waterloo 1815). There are also ones you pay for. These provide suggested Orders of Battle for the scenario. For example, for the battle of Aspern (a segment of the Battle of Aspern-Essling 1809), here is the number of elements in the suggested OOB for the Austrian force:-

Austrian: CinC Hiller
1 x Jg
1 x Lt (M)(Frikorps)
1 x Lt (Grenzer)
2 x Art (one is Horse)
2 x LC
7 x Ms

This is a force of only 14 elements (bases). Things like this will help you decide what figures you need. The first appears to be a Jager unit (light infantry). How many figures will you need per element? When you look at other OOBs in the 1809 campaign you might find that you may only ever need one more Jager element. If you decide to base, say, 8 figures to an element, this means that out of your 30 pack of Pendraken figures you may only ever need 8 or 16. This is the same for all of the other troop types. It therefore pays to find out what you might need first so that is why I recommend you buy the rules first and then match your potential 'requirements' with the way in which Pendraken packages their miniatures. In the long run, you may then find that Waremblem's advice to go generic by focusing on line and light infantry, is the best if you decide to continue playing Napoleonic with DBN in future. If you eventually decide that DBN is not for you and go for another set of rules, you will then a have a nucleus to base your expanded armies.

By the way, I too recommend the 1809 campaign but I would also consider the 1813 campaign in Germany where you had Russians, Austrians, Hungarians, Prussians, French, Bavarians, Wurtemburgers, Italians, Saxons and many more more nationalities battling it out.  

p.s. Although larger scale figures are shown, the Photo Gallery on the website may give you an idea of the typical force size and basing requirements in a DBN game.  https://dbnwargaming.weebly.com/photo-gallery.html

I concur with Westmarcher - you may find that ultimately you like different rules, all of us have tried multiple sets I would wager. And line and light infantry along with light cavalry will be used in every single ruleset and you'll never have a formation of figures that won't have utility. Another side benefit is that it hones your painting skills so by the time you get around to painting Guard or Cuirassiers you'll have gotten reps on line so organically your elite troops will look better!

If you can get a copy "Armies of the Napolionic Era" by Von Pifka woukd be very useful. Also there are various Osprey Men-At-Arms and Elite titles which will be very useful.

I've got the DBN rules and "Thunder on the Danube" vol 1 on the way. I have some other projects to get finished before jumping into this, so plenty of time to plan this on out.

I must admit - having viewed the Youtube video - that I am getting tempted.
Although I might do mine in a larger scale.

Interesting project