I am just thinking what is an essential journey.

ie.

Is the fitter who is due to fit our bedroom in a couple of weeks allowed to travel to work (my house) and fit the bedroom?

If you have a water leak is the plumber allowed to travel to your house to fix it?

Am I allowed to go and collect my daughter and her stuff from university now its closed?

Quote from: Orcs on 23 March 2020, 09:51:47 PM
I am just thinking what is an essential journey.

ie.

A) Is the fitter who is due to fit our bedroom in a couple of weeks allowed to travel to work (my house) and fit the bedroom?

B ) If you have a water leak is the plumber allowed to travel to your house to fix it?

C) Am I allowed to go and collect my daughter and her stuff from university now its closed?

My guess Orc - for what it is worth is as follows:

A) probably not - it's not essential and is technically a gathering of more than 2 people from outside the same household

B ) yes - as it is essential or it might cause damage, force you to leave your home, deprive you of water you need to survive

C) yes - as she cannot travel on public transport - and as long as you both stay in the car you are not breaching the public gatherings directive as you are in the same household

1). I have mu own dilemma - does me going to my 125 metre square allotment - where generally nobody even speaks to you other than to grunt "ga-mornin" from a path over 6 metres away (if you are lucky), count as daily exercise?

2). If my cleaners come to clean the house (they are a couple) - if I go out into the garden will that mean they are not in breach of the mass gatherings rule?

 

We've been trying to find more guidance on this since Boris announced it, there's a publication from the government here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf?fbclid=IwAR02nzmE_-cstJvk4i0m-_l9-sDZkkn7whh1fxtTTvDLnUlm3IxsXI_w1Us 

In answer to your questions, I'd think similar to Big Insect:

a) No, as it's not an essential job and they'd be in close vicinity to you and your house members.

b) Yes, as it's an emergency call-out.

c) Probably yes, as she doesn't have any other means of getting home.

Quote from: Big Insect on 23 March 2020, 10:49:11 PM
1). I have mu own dilemma - does me going to my 125 metre square allotment - where generally nobody even speaks to you other than to grunt "ga-mornin" from a path over 6 metres away (if you are lucky), count as daily exercise?

2). If my cleaners come to clean the house (they are a couple) - if I go out into the garden will that mean they are not in breach of the mass gatherings rule?

For these:

1) In theory you're growing food on the allotment which would go bad if left, so you should be allowed to go and maintain it.

2) I'm not sure if they'd be allowed, as it might fall into the 'different households' area and they don't want people to mingle at all.

This is a good time to have a spot on the end of your nose.


p.s. House cleaners and house fitters visiting multiple households - definitely a no, no ......

"1). I have mu own dilemma - does me going to my 125 metre square allotment - where generally nobody even speaks to you ... (if you are lucky), count as daily exercise?"

Exactly same here - I will argue to the Supreme Court that growing food is essential work, even if in this case, it's not paid work, and does indeed count as daily exercise. Our allotments are alley-gated and individually padlocked, so it's not like general public can waltz in and infect allotmenteers, or be infected by allotmenteers.

My other problem. I carry parcels for figure orders to the post office. That is one of my jobs. The PO will be open. Selling figures isn't essential work (other than keeping my bosses' business in business) but it's work, therefore am I allowed to do that walk, officer? It's on the way to the allotment, so I can combine the walks(!).
Otherwise I can work at home (keep buying those army lists folks  )

Mark

Quote from: Big Insect on 23 March 2020, 10:49:11 PM
My guess Orc - for what it is worth is as follows:

2). If my cleaners come to clean the house (they are a couple) - if I go out into the garden will that mean they are not in breach of the mass gatherings rule?

If your cleaners are allowed to come to the house, so should my bedroom fitter be allowed, as they are both going to their place of work to do work that cannot be done at home.

In the case of my bedroom fitters they will be upstairs in the bedroom and I will be a dozen or more meters away downstairs.

And I have not had a bedroom already for a number of weeks.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 23 March 2020, 11:27:34 PM

p.s. House cleaners and house fitters visiting multiple households - definitely a no, no ......

Delivery services are allowed and by definition all delivery services visit multiple houses. The virus can be passed on via an envelope or packet or a box of Veg. .

Can one still simply walk into Mordor?

Quote from: Last Hussar on 24 March 2020, 01:33:13 AM
Can one still simply walk into Mordor?

Yes if you are a ring bearer

Quote from: Orcs on 24 March 2020, 01:43:37 AM
Yes if you are a ring bearer

They may as well go for a walk Orcs, the ring bearers won't be allowed to go home to Hobbiton for a while....https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120472093/coronavirus-hobbiton-movie-set-temporarily-closes-tours-cancelled

Well...

I'm certainly walking over the road to check the gee-gees and their water trough, a couple of times a day....and make sure the sheep are still alive...(I'm certain no-one could object to that.)...animal welfare, and all that.

Chances of me seeing anyone.....Apart from a farmer, or two, on their tractors.....Are about zip....Oh..and it's 'bin' & recycle collection day today.
(I have heard a single car on the road this morning !)

Well, I'll be hornswoggled.....The 'bin' guys have just been and gone.

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Orcs on 24 March 2020, 12:57:13 AM
Delivery services are allowed and by definition all delivery services visit multiple houses. The virus can be passed on via an envelope or packet or a box of Veg. .

The cleaners have self-cancelled anyway ... so that's a relief.
Apparently my new gas stove is being deliver today anyway. As long as the delivery guys dont leave it at the bottom of th steps to the house I'll be fine!!!

PS: Orc - up until last night we had a tribe of dwarves digging in our basement (builders sorting out a major damp problem) - they were isolated from rest of the house - but now the basement is silent.

Quote from: Big Insect on 24 March 2020, 08:15:50 AM

Apparently my new gas stove is being deliver today anyway. As long as the delivery guys dont leave it at the bottom of the steps to the house I'll be fine!!!

Mark - they will - particularly if its Argos....

Quote from: Orcs on 24 March 2020, 12:57:13 AM
Delivery services are allowed and by definition all delivery services visit multiple houses.

Yes, but they only go to your door and don't come into your house, hang around there for some time and touch your furniture, door handles, light switches, etc. Because they breath (and perhaps, sweat, cough and sneeze) that is a 'droplet' risk and because they touch, that is a 'contact' risk.

Quote from: Orcs on 24 March 2020, 12:57:13 AM
The virus can be passed on via an envelope or packet or a box of Veg. .

And yes, there has always been the possibility that anything delivered or brought into the home might carry the virus - one report I heard is that the virus can last up to 4 hours on cardboard (I'm sure there are other theories). leon doesn't even deliver that fast - but what if the postman has the virus and has just newly passed it on to your Pendraken package (should we therefore quarantine our newly arrived Pendraken packages - aargh! what a torture!  ). I've also heard that the virus lasts much longer on glass (milk bottles), plastics (food containers, light switches, door bells, etc.) and metal (door knobs, handles and bells, etc.). Apparently, it is OK to wash food (and hopefully cooking and boiling must also help).

It's all about trying to avoid or minimise risk. By the way, it has just occurred to me, Orcs, if you knew this about inanimate objects then why did you think it might be OK for a living, breathing fitter to come into your home and expose it and therefore you and your family to both 'droplet' and 'contact' risk?

My step Daughter is a teacher and had to deep clean her school as they are teaching Children of Key workers.

they were given a very strong disinfectant and had to spray it on all hard surfaces and leave it on for 10 minutes.

They were told the virus  can live on the following

Hard Surfaces (except wood) up to 3 days
Wood - slightly less than hard surfaces
Clothes 3-4 hours