Already today I have come across two mentions of wargaming and bad backs: once on one of Norm's blogs, and again when I came across mention of tables that could be raised in height. Already having a table, and also usually ending up with a bad back after a game, I am going to search out something my dad had about ten years ago - it was a cheap but neat system of four raisers to go under the legs of a bed to raise it up. Anyone else have this problem or tried ways to solve or alleviate it?

**** me.

You lot whinge about just leaning over a table.....I have to almost double myself up to make the masters of the little men for you to play with.....And I do this eight hours, plus, every frigging day.
Fifty two weeks a year.....Holidays are something that happens to other people.

Doesn't help that the thirteen year old (well...that's what she looks like) Doc has taken me off as many of the prescription opiates as she can.

Cheers - Mr Grumpy (I hurt)

I play on a 4' x 4' table 95% of the time, set up on a standard kitchen dining table. This hasn't caused me any problems. When I used to play at a club on fold up tables, this was more of an issue because they were lower, as were the chairs. So raising the height of the board will certainly help, but not solve the problem of a bad back. Like Phil, my day job can often involve long periods bent over a bench, which  really does cause problems!

For boardgames that are 1 map or less, I sit at the table.

For two mappers or anything with figures I stand at a raised set of temprary tables - though in short sessions.

Basically I have a number of aluminium pasting tables that have extendable legs, allowing the surface to be put at 37½" high. I then rest these tables on a pair of skates / skids that take the table to just over 40" high, I find this significantry reduces strain on the lower back as one does not have to bend over or into the table so much. I would put the skates on top of the table instead and rest the boards on them, but my boards are only 6mm MDF for lightness and they would likely belly, though adding a third central skate might stop that. I had also though of adding upside down plant pots (plenty) to the table top and then boarding on top of them.

The skates are simply made from that square plastic down pipe stuff that runs from house guttering, taking the water from the gutter to the grid. They are surprisingly sturdy, though I squirted some of that expanding foam stuff down mine, to add strength and to make each open end insect / spider proof, as they are kept in the garage until needed.

It also helps that I have cut my table width down to 42" so reaching to the middle is OK, the length can either be 4' or 6', so I have two pair of skates, one set for each size.

I spend most of a battle in a chair. Only the packing stage seems a strain.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 December 2018, 05:10:03 PM
I spend most of a battle in a chair. Only the packing stage seems a strain.

So you are a true "Armchair General" 

Gets us all sooner or later.

Quote from: Techno on 08 December 2018, 03:16:32 PM
**** me.


I have to almost double myself up to make the masters of the little men for you to play with.....And I do this eight hours, plus, every frigging day.

So by your own admission you make the little men.

A number of the forum have bad backs when they play with the little men you make,  Therefore the logical conclusion is that you are the root cause of their bad backs.

Leon is the secondary cause of their bad backs because he is the dealer in little men.

Gentlemen I think we need to contact "I sue 4U" the injuries lawyer specialising in Leisure related injuries.   

The basis of our claim is that the little men are heavy and contain lead.  This means that we have to sit for hours painting them to avoid lead poisoning when we use them.
Collected together they make a heavy box that we have to carry to our gaming tables, causing us to hurt our backs
We then have to spend hours bent over play the game.

They do not come with a health warning stating that they may cause lead poisoning if unpainted or that by sitting for hours painting them to avoid poisoning you get a bad back.
Neither is there a warning that leaning over a table playing with them could be bad for your back .

They should also came with a warning about not handling them if your pregnant or have recently made someone pregnant, or abuse yourself without washing your hands after handling them.


Should be an open and shut case as we have a written "confession" from Techno that he makes the cause of our bad backs. 





 

I think we are in Group Claim territory here. We just need our American cousins to start the case...

Quote from: Orcs on 09 December 2018, 12:52:20 AM

A number of the forum have bad backs when they play with the little men you make,  Therefore the logical conclusion is that you are the root cause of their bad backs.
 

I hadn't thought of that. 

Cheers - Phil

And no doubt also the cause of numerous knife wounds and much poor eyesight.....

Quote from: ianrs54 on 09 December 2018, 08:25:16 AM
And no doubt also the cause of numerous knife wounds and much poor eyesight.....

Yeah fortunately I have a habit of cutting myself, the joys of wargaming

Take care

Andy

I located the furniture risers on Amazon, and not too much for a set of four. Unfortunately my table has six legs so I had to order two sets.

Practical suggestions for those with back ailments (From one who has been there)

At the Table:
1. Try to alternate between sitting and standing.
2. A higher table, or lowered height-adjustable chair (easier to find) can help.
3. Try to avoid tables greater than 5 feet wide - it was the stretching over to move the little guys and measure ranges that really did for me (10mm are helpful here since you can play a condensed scale unlike the poor benighted 28mm fanboy).
4. Avoid lifting too much heavy stuff (Lead) - again 10mm is a significant winner against the "Heroic" scales (You know who you are).

In General:
1. When I reached a certain age, my body started complaining about periods of inactivity, in my case a sciatica attack, helped by a nice physio who showed me some Pilates type exercises to help maintain "core strength".
2. If the table is so large that you must lean over, manoeuvre yourself upright again before leaning to another part of the table - nothing worse than twisting sideways when leant over.

Away from the table. Other situations can aggravate the same problems:
1. Stand up and stretch yourself to full height every 15 minutes at a computer screen
2. Same for TV screen - the Freeview channels are helpful in this as they schedule an ad-break every 15 minutes.
3. Should probably do the same when painting, but I honestly find I drop into "The zone" and 2 hours can pass as the little men move from the unpainted to painted piles.

All useful advice - thanks Steve.

Bad backs are not a problem with HOTT - you only need a 24' x 24' board!

As for attorneys, may I recommend Dewey, Cheatem and Howe as I hear hey are very good!!!

Terry

Or, maybe, Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne ?

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 09 December 2018, 05:00:14 PM
Practical suggestions for those with back ailments (From one who has been there)

At the Table:
1. Try to alternate between sitting and standing.
2. A higher table, or lowered height-adjustable chair (easier to find) can help.
3. Try to avoid tables greater than 5 feet wide - it was the stretching over to move the little guys and measure ranges that really did for me (10mm are helpful here since you can play a condensed scale unlike the poor benighted 28mm fanboy).
4. Avoid lifting too much heavy stuff (Lead) - again 10mm is a significant winner against the "Heroic" scales (You know who you are).

In General:
1. When I reached a certain age, my body started complaining about periods of inactivity, in my case a sciatica attack, helped by a nice physio who showed me some Pilates type exercises to help maintain "core strength".
2. If the table is so large that you must lean over, manoeuvre yourself upright again before leaning to another part of the table - nothing worse than twisting sideways when leant over.

Away from the table. Other situations can aggravate the same problems:
1. Stand up and stretch yourself to full height every 15 minutes at a computer screen
2. Same for TV screen - the Freeview channels are helpful in this as they schedule an ad-break every 15 minutes.
3. Should probably do the same when painting, but I honestly find I drop into "The zone" and 2 hours can pass as the little men move from the unpainted to painted piles.

Good advice here.

Only 2 hours when in the "zone" I have been known to sit and paint in the "zone"  all day

Quote from: Orcs on 09 December 2018, 07:20:37 PM
Good advice here.

Only 2 hours when in the "zone" I have been known to sit and paint in the "zone"  all day

I have adapted my approach to painting.
I used to sit there painting whatever bits seemed most interesting.
Now I engage in organised sessions of 30 minutes or one hour, with a focus on whole units, or groups of whole units.

For example:
Splash flesh colour paint all over the mostly naked tribal warriors. Can probably manage 4 units of 12 - two coats, one hour.
Paint mounted unit's horses in a variety of lightbrown, dark brown, black and grey - 4 units of 6, one hour.
Paint saddle cloth and harness on same horses - 6 horses, 30 minutes.

Notice form the examples that I schedule smaller batches and shorter sessions for the "detail work".
I've noticed my neck, jaw and shoulders get a lot more tense when I'm working on detail, so I keep the sessions short.
There's no rule against having several sessions in a day, but I try to schedule a 15 minute tea break in between.
I also change the water and giv the brushes a good wash between sessions.

By ensuring that whole units (notice my units are rather small) are at the same state of progress, I find I get a lot done.

I can't say whether this will work for other painters, but you are most welcome to give it a try, and discuss your results here.

I use a similar approach with batches of  units and it works very well for me

I find doing all of each items in one go really speeds things up and I get into a flow knowing how to hold the brush etc for each figure...