Hi Leon

I've got as far as assembling and briefly reading through all the printed info I have. I had already started on Saxon flags for a painting job a few years ago but the customer decided to do his own and it wasn't completed, not looking forward to all those different border designs though. Similarly I have some work done on the Polish flags that will give me a start there too. Hesse-Darmstadt uses some of the Prussian layout so they aren't being done quite from scratch - Warsaw looks a bit of a nightmare but with a good deal of similarity and Wurtemberg is a total new design.

At the moment I'm only planning on doing the infantry - which is what I usually do for Pendraken Napoleonics, cavalry will have to wait until later if it is required.

Any help will, of course, be welcome - I'm no expert at researching flags but have often found that even the most commonly used references are not perfect (or even complete in some cases). Possibly better to communicate with my 'work' e-mail main AT tinytintroops DOT co DOT uk Andrew, at least until I'm able to share a plan.

It will be later this month when I'm able to give any detailed plan as I've got other bits in the queue before I can get to that stage.

Once I get a plan I'll share it here and see what discussion brings up. I'm not holding the purse strings so Leon will have the final say but, as I've done with other flag sheets already on sale, I'll try and give both good value for customers' money and a product that Pendraken can continue to sell.

Tony of TTT

Quote from: TinyTinTroops on 01 November 2018, 07:18:02 PM
Once I get a plan I'll share it here and see what discussion brings up. I'm not holding the purse strings so Leon will have the final say but, as I've done with other flag sheets already on sale, I'll try and give both good value for customers' money and a product that Pendraken can continue to sell.

Sounds good to me, thanks for the info.

Quote from: TinyTinTroops on 01 November 2018, 07:18:02 PM
Hi Leon

I've got as far as assembling and briefly reading through all the printed info I have. I had already started on Saxon flags for a painting job a few years ago but the customer decided to do his own and it wasn't completed, not looking forward to all those different border designs though. Similarly I have some work done on the Polish flags that will give me a start there too. Hesse-Darmstadt uses some of the Prussian layout so they aren't being done quite from scratch - Warsaw looks a bit of a nightmare but with a good deal of similarity and Wurtemberg is a total new design.

At the moment I'm only planning on doing the infantry - which is what I usually do for Pendraken Napoleonics, cavalry will have to wait until later if it is required.






Any help will, of course, be welcome - I'm no expert at researching flags but have often found that even the most commonly used references are not perfect (or even complete in some cases). Possibly better to communicate with my 'work' e-mail main AT tinytintroops DOT co DOT uk Andrew, at least until I'm able to share a plan.

It will be later this month when I'm able to give any detailed plan as I've got other bits in the queue before I can get to that stage.

Once I get a plan I'll share it here and see what discussion brings up. I'm not holding the purse strings so Leon will have the final say but, as I've done with other flag sheets already on sale, I'll try and give both good value for customers' money and a product that Pendraken can continue to sell.

Tony of TTT

Hi Tony,

I entirely agree regarding commonly used sources. All I can offerr is Saxon information from Hottenroth, the Saxon Officer who controlled the Saxon archives before WW1 and wrote the definitive history of Saxon flags, combined with more recent access to existing flags in the German Army Museum. Also info on other German states provided by Fiebig in his 1936 volume on the flags of German states from 1615-1918. This is not comprehensive, but contains much, including photos of then extant flags, which is missing in later sources. i am afraid I can offer you nothing to resolve your problems regarding the Duchy of Warsaw. I have also  provided the info behind the mid nineteenth century German state flags in the Pendraken range, and  contributed to your own Napoleonic Prussian flags.

Best Regards,


Andrew

Hi Andrew

That certainly trumps my sources (the 3 Ospreys & Over plus Drapeaux website) but, at least the Saxon stuff is fairly comprehensive and identical in both textual sources as to the designs. What may differ is in the deployment and issue of the flags or any individual details, of which I have little or no knowledge beyond those sources and probably don't need immediately.

Do you know of any glaring errors in these sources ?

Tony

Hi Tony,

I dont have the Osprey on Saxon flags, and am not sure as to the identity of the 'Drapeaux' site you refer to. That said, there are many errors in wargaming flags for the Saxons, including putting the reverse and obverse in the wrong order, and putting the cartouche for the monogram in field colour rather than white. I have emailed you the Hottenroth illustrations.

Andrew

Rawkins has an e-book publication on both the Saxons and Duchy of Warsaw. Have not looked at the flag sections but at the price they may be worth a look.

Hi Chad

Could you give me a bit more detail on that e-book please. Where might I find it ?

thanks

Tony

Quote from: TinyTinTroops on 02 November 2018, 11:13:22 AM
Hi Chad

Could you give me a bit more detail on that e-book please. Where might I find it ?

thanks

Tony

Hi Tony,
I'll be prepping a bunch of info on flags to go with the uniform data already supplied. That will include the relevant info from the Rawkins publications - which is extremely good for its time but usually needs corroboration. I think between what Mollinary will provide and my more general overview you should be good to go.

I'll also review the uniform data just to ensure there are no 'doh!' moments

Tony

Google W J Rawkins. It wii appear as the historyman. The e-books are £4.50 each and are good value for money.

Link to the e-books site

http://www.thehistorybookman.webeden.co.uk/

Quote from: Zippee on 02 November 2018, 01:48:17 PM
Hi Tony,
I'll be prepping a bunch of info on flags to go with the uniform data already supplied. That will include the relevant info from the Rawkins publications - which is extremely good for its time but usually needs corroboration. I think between what Mollinary will provide and my more general overview you should be good to go.

I'll also review the uniform data just to ensure there are no 'doh!' moments

Hi folks

Can I just confirm a few things as I can't really decide what to order without knowing....

Do the Hessians have bicorns or shakos?

Bicornes

Again, thanks to all involved in this project!

I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck into my proposed 1809 project. As I have previously posted, I won't be doing any painting, etc., until after Xmas.

Currently reading through General d'Armee and also enjoying the related videos posted on YouTube.

I would be interested to hear from members about their current/proposed project. Which ruleset? Unit basing? 

Cheers,
Scolty
(anyone going to 'Targe' next week?)

I shall be at Targe. Supreme Littleness has a stall.

I'm being a bit pressed for time currently (and research isn't easy when everything is in a box)

Rawlins needs to be read with care - his info on Wurttemberg is very remiss (although the online documents may be updated I guess)

From what I can cull from my available notes on flags we have

Wurttemberg
1st through 5th regiments had the 1st battalions each with 2 1798 pattern ducal standards (140cm square with a 6cm fringe) and the 2nd battalions (raised 1806) each with 2 1806 royal standards (125cm square with a 5cm fringe)
The 6th Kurprinz, later Kronprinz was rauised in 1803 and uniquey had its 1st battalion issued with 2 1803 electoral pattern standards (140cm square) the 2nd battalion (1806) had 2 1806 royal standards as above
The 7th Fusilier/von neubronn/von Koseritz regiment was raised in 1806, the 2nd battalion in 1807 and both battaliosn were issued with a pair of 1807 pattern royal standards (254cm square)
The 8th von Schafferstein was raised in Sept 1809 from existing depot battalions and also issued with 2 1807 pattern royal standards per battalion
The leichtes and jager carried no standards

Hesse
The leibgarde was issued with 4 leinsfahne (2 per musketeer battalion) in an all white pattern (130cm square)
The leib regiment was issued with 1 leibsfahne (white with black/red rays) and 3 regimentsfahne (black with red rays)
The gross und Erbprinz regiment was issued with 1 leibsfahne (white with black/yellow rays) and 3 regimentsfahne (black with yellow rays)
The fusilier battalions (like teh chevaux leger0 carries no standards)

Saxony
The leibsgarde and each line regiment were each issued 1802 pattern standards (the 1807 pattern replacements were odered in November 1807 and presented in 1811) which measured 157cm x 144.5cm.
1 leibsfahne was issued to the 1st battalion and 1 ordinarsfahne to the 2nd battalion of each regiment
None of the converged grenadier or schutzen battalions were issued standards

Can we check with Leon if there is any chance that the command packs of Wurttemberg and Hesse could be configured to include a pair of standard bearers (otherwise we have to buy double the amount of packs and have lots of surplus drummers!)

Quote from: Zippee on 05 November 2018, 02:59:53 PM
Can we check with Leon if there is any chance that the command packs of Wurttemberg and Hesse could be configured to include a pair of standard bearers (otherwise we have to buy double the amount of packs and have lots of surplus drummers!)

We can do that, no worries, we've done it with the Brits and KGL ranges.

Really looking forward to this. Wishing away my life.

Anyway......did everyone pay their pledge and is it full steam ahead?

We've still got a few orders to confirm with folks, maybe 8 of the 'pledgees' I think, but I know a couple of guys are away at the moment and haven't had chance to reply to the email.  The sculpting got underway today and the Hesse infantry were first in the queue.

Just confirmed my order total Leon,

Thanks again everyone, I'm really happy this has worked out.