Quote from: ronan on 06 May 2017, 11:03:21 AM
Something's strange here  :-  : I AGAIN agree with Peter ! 

not strange, sensible 

I don't think it's true that lumbering means you can't deploy/mount/dismount in the same move. If you look on page 24 they are all seperate actions. Lumbering only means no two (tactical) move actions.

Quote from: OldenBUA on 06 May 2017, 11:18:39 AM
I don't think it's true that lumbering means you can't deploy/mount/dismount in the same move. If you look on page 24 they are all seperate actions. Lumbering only means no two (tactical) move actions.

p67
LUMBERING
May only take one move action each turn.

p14
Move actions
-assault move
-support move
-tactical move
-mount/dismount
-deploy


Now ifthe ability on page 67 read "tactical move action" i would agree.

If I play a game with my Matilda regt. I should get say 1.5 orders of every turn. With a move of 15, to simply cross a 4ft table would take my boys about 12 turns and they'd probably not fire during any of those turns. Now if the objective is to cross and not fire I'm ok. But any manoeuvring or need to shoot back might mean that I'm faced by a very long (unplayable) game. A pal of mine is setting up the counter attack at Arras in a few weeks and he can't use these rules.

I notice that Matildas are lumbering but Churchills, Crocodiles and Valentines aren't - despite all having the same (near as damn it) top speed.

"Lumbering", as it stands, is daft. Lumbering was already in BKCII - "manhandled guns can only move once"

Applying it to already low cv, slow vehicles is, to put it mildly, going to break the game.

Quote from: Leon on 05 May 2017, 01:35:51 PM
We've had a ton of emails from people wanting to help and get this back on track, so we're going to assemble a group of folks (mainly from the original BKC playtest group, plus some additions)

Also make sure that one person doesn't control the rules, otherwise you'd end up with a re-run of the current BKCIII debarcle.

An "authoring team" is far better than a one-man band!

Quote from: petercooman on 06 May 2017, 11:45:45 AM
Now ifthe ability on page 67 read "tactical move action" i would agree.

Fair enough. Doesn't make sense as written. Should be 'tactical move' in my opinion. And quite a few units that are now lumbering shouldn't have it applied to them. Slow moving plus the vagaries of the command system means that units are pretty slow anyway.

I also think that for some of the units the whole deploy then fire, and deploy then move can be a bit much.

Indeed. Especially for mg teams!

Lumbering Matildas will also be outstripped by men on foot!

But, we are all discussing a set of rules that the publishers have acknowledged are broken, not fit to use and are going to replace. All that needs to happen now is a diligent team need to spot all the mistakes.  ŵ

"Lumbering Matildas"!  Sounds like the title to a song

 

"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome on stage the Lumbering Matilda's and their hit song Every German Tank is a Tiger!"

don't make fun of my Matildas! 

If you look at the bit about ground scale and time scale, it seems that a lumbering vehicle with a move of 15cm can manage about 1.2 km / hour (less than 1 mph). And that's​being generous, could be even less.

I know there were some slow vehicles, but not that slow.

Yeah lumbering really is an unnecessary addition IMHO.

It slows the game down, and at the meantime provides a huge advantage to a Defender.
It would seem that the lumbering special rule brings the points of an anti tank gun WAY down. In a defence an anti tank gun that is in a prime position and who doesn't need to move will be as potent as it used to be at a quarter of the price in points!

Quote from: Dr Dave on 07 May 2017, 06:30:21 AM
don't make fun of my Matildas! 

Actually poking fun at the special rule that shouldn't be.  Or is that the special rule which should not be named?

The "special rule that shouldn't be". Which one exactly? 

Could be a Monty Python skit.   Oh, I'm a lumbering and that's okay, I don;t move far and sleep all day.

"Who'd take Matildas? Who'd take Matildas?
Who'd take a Char B or KV too?
"Lumbering" is bollox,
Little better than a pillbox,
I think we can fix this, I really do!

 

Gentlemen, we have our new Kipling!

I like a Matilda. Especially against Pz I, II and the Czech stuff - the majority of Pz Divs in 1940. 




Do you like Kipling?
I don't know, I've never Kippled.
Goon Show, 1965