Seems to be a lot of questions focused on the lists.

I saw a response in one of the threads from Leon stating that he's getting back to the author regarding that particular list question. I wonder if his findings may clear up a lot of these issues.

I do hope so. This evening I compared the BEF lists, and to my mind, there are quite a few errors in the BKCIII version. For example:

- The 25mm and 2 pdr ATGs having an AP rating.
- The Vickers MkVI having an AT rating.
- The already mentioned issue with the Matilda II and Crusader Hits & Saves.

On another note, I don't understand why Platoons with AT Rifles get 2/60 AP. Surely it should be 2/30?

For the moment I will stick with the BKCII lists and try the BKCIII rules and 'Notes/Abilities' where I feel they are correct.

OK - the 2pdr for certain, and the 25mm both had HE, it's just that the British didn't issue it to TANKS.

The 15mm HMG has roughly the same armour penetration as a 20mm auto cannon, so it should have an AT rating. If it's a Vickers 0.5" then possibly not, although the US one should.

Ian - 2pdr HE round was never produced so it should not have an AP rating. Agree on the 15mm MG - tended to whipsaw the barrel but hard hitting

Too many inconsistencies for me so far - all the data is there but a lot of it is misplaced so annoying to use the lists and there are errors in the ratings like Panzer IV armour getting worse past 1940.

Would give Panther 4+ armour as it was as well protected frontally as a Tiger or KV but not good armour, gun stats are obviously a bit odd.

Barrel droop is awful and strikes at all ages....

Quote from: sjb1001 on 29 April 2017, 10:19:26 AM
Ian - 2pdr HE round was never produced so it should not have an AP rating. Agree on the 15mm MG - tended to whipsaw the barrel but hard hitting

WRONG - 2pdr HE was ISSUED to towed guns but NOT TANKS. I suspect it would be less than 10% and it was not British policy to use A/T guns as general support. But the round existed and was used.

2 pdr HE ammunition was issued, but not until around 1942 as I understand it, so certainly not applicable to the BEF list.

Would 2 pdr HE be worth the cost of dragging it around? I ask in all seriousness, knowing very little on the subject.

I stand corrected, APHE was never produced. HE was manufactured and issued - question should be was it ever used to the extent it would be useful? From information from Bovington the HE and APHE used a Hotchkiss base fuse that had a tendency to fall out on firing and crews only kept HE for close defence work as they tended to prefer full racks of AP from what I can see. The HE shell is described as a 'blunt-nosed serrated cylinder made of cast iron designed to strike the ground and pitch back into the air then explode, scattering fragments into enemy infantry and animals such as horses', can't find a picture of it though - may have one in older artillery books.

So - about twice the size of a hand grenade and is given the same HE as a 3" mortar??

Ironically the APHE had better AT performance if the fuse did fall out as they would detonate on impact as opposed to getting through the armour first......

2pdr HE was not issued to tanks as it was thought (probably correctly) that the on board MG's would be more effective. APHE was never considered as far as I know, since there would be little or no effect within the target. The PaK 36 had 1/2 oz of desensitised explosive in it so again that looks to be  a reasonable decision.

IanS

APHE was trialled 1936-7 but the fuse issue prevented it being produced, it failed the 70% chance to penetrate 15mm of RHA at 500m quite spectacularly.

Fuzes? Base plates? production?

The exam question is simply: Should the 2 pdr ALWAYS have HE?

Yes / No

[1 mark]

No for me - at any time all to be honest.

No from me. Did I pass? 

Just noticed there is something wrong with the 120mm Mortar stat line in the German 44-45 list p115.  Is the AP 4 with no range stat incorrect (I sincerely hope so) and all the other stats need to be shifted one column to the left?

Cheers, Andy

SteveJ has passed, but he might have copied.