Quote from: fsn on 15 October 2016, 09:00:14 AM
I would also add "Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnason. An account of the Canadian 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry having an equally bad time.

They were Canadian, don't you know. From Canada.

Sorry for the deplorable standard of posting chaps. I know I may contribute rubbish, but I try and make it grammatically, and where necessary, factually accurate rubbish. My only excuse is I had a really bad week in work last week, doing hours that a Junior Doctor would recognise.

Rumour control update; unconfirmed reports that a man was seen in a Middlesbrough pub making out a list of figures under a heading "Very Late Aztecs ".
If you should encounter this individual, tell him I no longer need the Whirlwind helicopter- Grumpy Old Man found me one.

Quote from: d_Guy on 15 October 2016, 12:51:35 PM
(having read Men Under Fire...)

To continue the Auto de fe' begun by fsn, it is - of course - Men Against Fire. Tricky thing, memory. While "under" more or less expresses the thesis In a subliminal way, it was not the word the author used, therefore I am well and truly sorry.

The Hasting's book is a great read!

Quote from: d_Guy on 17 October 2016, 01:09:34 PM
To continue the Auto de fe' begun by fsn, it is - of course - Men Against Fire. Tricky thing, memory. While "under" more or less expresses the thesis In a subliminal way, it was not the word the author used, therefore I am well and truly sorry.

The Hasting's book is a great read!

Any scenarios that would translate to table top ?

I am still at about August of 1950. At this point the scenarios would be variants of:

"You are the commander of a rifle company of American infantry comprised of three rifle platoons ( two BAR each) and one ad hoc weapons platoon provided by Battalion (two 81mm mortars, one .30 MG, and one Recoiless Rifle - Jeep mounted with HE rounds only). Your company first sargent has also scrounged a 2.5" bazooka with 8 AT rockets. You are in a rocky position (moderate slope) about 150' above a road junction with roads converging from the North and Northeast before passing South to your right. The last orders you recieved from Battalion HQ - before losing contact over two hours ago - are to 'Hold your position and deny road passage to the enemy' There has been heavy firing to your Northeast for the last hour and fifteen minutes ago your position was straffed (no casualties) by what was probably a North Korean plane (but may possibly have belonged to US Marines). You are aware that neither of your flanks are covered.

You now see a column of T-34 tanks (14) approaching from the North and a Battalion of enemy infantry advancing in line from the Northeast.
The artillery FO is unable to reach your assigned 105 battery for fire support.
Good Luck."

Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR! 

Nice scenario. Captures the spirit of the early war.


Here's an off the cuff one for a bit later on.

"You are a shavetail Lt commanding a platoon of Shermans. The front has broken and you're desperately trying to get back to what you hope will be your lines. You've lost a tank to a mine, and a second has had its running gear so badly damaged it can barely move above a fast walk. In your retreat south, you have picked up a number of hangers on. A veteran top sgt has organised a group of about 30 into something approaching a fighting force, but you're aware that there's about another 30-40 who are either wounded or shell shocked. You won't necessarrily be able to depend upon these men to fight. You convoy comprise 3 trucks, an ambulance and two jeeps. The jeeps mount MGs, The Sgt has equipped his men with 5 BARs and 2 .30 calibre MGs. Most of the rest carry carbines or rifles. 

The road goes due South and is about to enter a defile, with slopes to either East and West. These slopes are boulder strewn and you know you wouldn't be able to get your tanks up them, but infantry could operate quite efficiently. The corporal in your No 2 tank just reported seeing movement on the crest to the east. You think you hear what sounds like bugles.

At the other side of the ravine you hope to meet friendly forces. You feel the eyes of the world upon you. It's up to you to save these men and restore some honor and pride to your unit, the USA Army, and the American flag.

Good luck."

Quote from: fsn on 18 October 2016, 07:15:51 AM
Nice scenario. Captures the spirit of the early war.

"It's a trap!!"

Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 03:07:33 AM
Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR!  

Wait till I give Paul some 10mm Belgians to paint........(he has agreed to do them already   )

Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 03:07:33 AM
I am still at about August of 1950.

Lord help me - I am being sucked into this - and my FPW project gathers dust - oh for the discipline of PaulR! 

Guy, I think you have succinctly captured the mood of those desperate days of August 1950.  Its like France 1940, but with the vital difference that (i) does not end in Dunkirk and (ii) the Allies quickly achieve air superiority.   Now the UN troops thrown into the line did not know that it wouldn't end in Dunkirk . (In terms of morale the US Marines swaggered off the boats). Mind you its nice to play BEF 1940 and defeat history !

In my modest research into Korea, I have sourced declassified US military intel. It throws up interesting aspects for rule revision.  The CAS (close air support) is up a gear from WW2.  The intel shows that the majority of T-34s were victims of air strike.   However the T.34's was tough enough to merit an upgrade from the 5" HVAR to a shaped charge 6.5. 

So the UK can call airstrikes.  But in the early days without FACs you run the risk of Blue on Blue.  There were two major such incidents in 1950, so its got be a risk reflected in the dice.

The use of settlements and hamlets in a FIBUA style defence has also merit.  It allows cover for the Bazooka crews to stalk the T.34. The "I got me a tank"
scenario - At Teojon on 20 July ,no less than  ten T-34s were destroyed by 3.5 bazookas.  Nothing in the rules to prevent an M20 team being airlifted in by chopper as an option?

It is also an error to paint the NKPA as a T-34 + infantry formation.  Count in jeeps(GAZ -67B), the BA64 and motor cycle combos.   Around Pusan parameter M4A3s suffered in encounters with 45mm anti tank units.

Korean has a lot going for it. For me its the balance in the early war of superior armour (T-34) versus the dice roll of superior air power (if it can be acquired).  You need all your wargaming skill........+1.

Quote from: fsn on 18 October 2016, 07:15:51 AM

You think you hear what sounds like bugles.

Agree with Pierre, this is probably not the 24th Infantry Division band.  
Like your top Sargent who I think was my PysEd instructor in high school.

I am particularly drawn to scenarios that are very asymmetric. Depending on your perspective, the Korean War seems to offer a large number.

Have you considered using the good admiral as your sig photo?  

Quote from: d_Guy on 18 October 2016, 01:06:00 PM
Agree with Pierre, this is probably not the 24th Infantry Division band.  
Like your top Sargent who I think was my PysEd instructor in high school.

I am particularly drawn to scenarios that are very asymmetric. Depending on your perspective, the Korean War seems to offer a large number.

Have you considered using the good admiral as your sig photo?  

You hear bugles - Could be the Chinese ! Or it could be the irrepressible Bugle Major Martin, Durham Light Infantry . The DLI had to thaw their bugles before answering the Chinese.

Oops! Posted on top of you Sunday.

Hasting's account of Task Force Smith stuck in my head. The major impressions were the Americans suffering from the idea that their mere presence would cause the North Koreans to turn tail. (See this often in college football games). Also they suffered from being under equipped, under supplied, and vastly under informed. Their communication, at best, were faulty. To the plus side, they generally had excellent senior NCO's

For me to get into wargaming this period I would be on an almost insurmountable learning curve (at my age  )
Given my normal interests, the Chassepot rifle and the Mitrailleuse look like something out of Star Wars. 

No worries Guy- My old friends on the forum call me James (Techno reverts to Dr Jamie when I make demands ) Less demanding on spellcheck.

I suppose I have played WW2 to death, and Korea offers that new perspective, weapons and challenges.

For example, to your scenario . A small chopper (Bell 47 - $7 dollars Micro Machine ebay) is sighted passing at height. Dice 3+ you attract it.
It lands. The passenger is a US Marine Colonel Special Advisor (Pendraken MC11).  He says an RoK column with understrength company with  one 105 mm and 5 rds AP is approaching from the North.

No 3+ dice, no liaison with Marine Colonel and a dice roll of 5/6 to prevent blue on blue (Believe me Americans are trigger happy).

RoK take a morale check.  If they stand they are given a 3/30 .  I give my KPA units a 3/30 and veterans (many served with Chinese in ww2) a 4/30.
Helicopter can be tasked to source more ammo.

KPA make entry onto table. (currently the dollies are on Techno's work bench as I type) and a pair of BA -64  (Pendraken SV53 -buy one get one free) comes down the road. Do you take them out with the 105? Or chance it with bazookas and keep you 105 as the ace in the hole?   

God those new T-34s from Marty (SC9) look cool.......

Like the additions Sunray! - you are stretching my knowledge base.
Given the propensity for friendly fire and the aforementioned straffing run - the men of first platoon, unsure of what that buzzing thing is, rip up
the helicopter with their BAR's. 

I am trying to resist this whole thing but the scope of Korea IS much more manageable then WW2.

I am no thinking of a new period, I am not, I am not, I am not

How are the Korea enthusiasts planning on depicting the often rugged Korean terrain
From my limited knowledge a lot of the fighting seemed to involve major hills and steep slopes

Quote from: paulr on 18 October 2016, 07:06:44 PM

How are the Korea enthusiasts planning on depicting the often rugged Korean terrain
From my limited knowledge a lot of the fighting seemed to involve major hills and steep slopes

Interesting point. I would have no problem using an enlarged contour map although much would depend on the organizational level you plan to play. I know nothing about rules for period and next to nothing about TO&E. First  impulse is to use Chain of Command (and hopeful someone has already adapted it to Korea) so I could probably use my idosyncratic piles of terrycloth squares for steep hills.

Once you are finished with your DBA stuff maybe.....