Went to Tankfest down at Bovingdon in June, excellent show as always, and a very nice display of cold war vehicles, particularly a centurion





There was also a lot about the centurion in the museum as well, including a video loop of members of staff who had served in them and a vehicle which had been cut in half lengthways with a platform which allowed you to walk through the vehicle, awesome!

What struck me was how small it was inside.

Quote from: DanJ on 19 July 2016, 08:39:32 AM
Went to Tankfest down at Bovingdon in June, excellent show as always, and a very nice display of cold war vehicles, particularly a centurion
What struck me was how small it was inside.

Stroll on.....

That's shocked me, too.

Looks like you'd need to be a bit of a contortionist to get inside that.
I'd never thought of myself as someone who would suffer from claustrophobia.....Until I watched some 'cavers' investigating the 'Cave of Bones' in Scotland, last night, on the tele.
Wouldn't be able to do that, for certain, and I don't think I'd fancy being shut up in a tank either.
I realised that there wasn't going to be much room in a tank....But I never imagined it was quite as cramped as it is.

Cheers - Phil

That's unimaginably roomy compared to some, especially interwar/ early WW2 tanks.

Some tanks were cramped enough that even our, by-and-large, more slender forebears had to drop one shoulder then the other to get through the hatches.

I'd be ...

Quote from: Techno on 19 July 2016, 09:20:17 AM
I'd never thought of myself as someone who would suffer from claustrophobia.....Until I watched some 'cavers' investigating the 'Cave of Bones' in Scotland, last night, on the tele.

Ever seen the film 'The Descent'? Never mind the horror element with the nasty creatures, the first bit was pretty damn horrific...

But tanks... yes. Not designed for someone of my stature... And full of jutting out hard bits too.

What struck me most wasn't how do you get in, but how do you get out...

The driver has a hatch, the loader has a hatch and the commander has a hatch but the gunner has to wait until either the commander or loader get out before he can exit.  Bad enough at the best of times but after a hit and possibly with the inside full of fumes and/or fire, a nightmare.

I think I read somewhere that WW2 British tanker overalls included a strong loop at the back of the collar to assist in the removal of bodies from damaged tanks, don't know if it's true and if it is it's pretty grim.

There are many YouTube videos on tanks, some by a Russian guy (in Russian, but you can see what he's talking about) and many new ones created for players of 'World of Tanks'. I am always struck by the same thought - there's always one poor sod, usually the gunner or loader, with no clear exit path.

Although many tanks would have an emergency exit in the floor.

Quote from: DanJ on 19 July 2016, 11:01:35 AM
I think I read somewhere that WW2 British tanker overalls included a strong loop at the back of the collar to assist in the removal of bodies from damaged tanks, don't know if it's true and if it is it's pretty grim.

I think this was quite common - could also be the shoulder loops. Probably more used for assisting the removal of injured troops.

The removal of dead bodies was often even more grim.

In the Spanish civil war when tanks were the new fancy thing, lots of royals (or other VIPs) wanted to serve in tank units, once they were shown a recently burnt out tank they changed their minds.

   Happy FSN! Tank you for posting.



Coincidentally, I just watched the 1958 classic "Tank Battalion". There's room to have a disco in an M47 ... or whatever that tank was.

Some of the ergonomics on the A series Cruisers were so bad it could take the driver 10-15 mins to wriggle down into place. Or back up and out again. First in (eventually), last out (eventually). There's a reason British tankers bailed early and often.

"Soft" factors like that actually have huge impact!

When I was young...and probably, by the rules, too young to draw out books from the 'adult' (lol) section of the library...I found a book which included a photo of a very fried (German?) tanker being 'Hooked' out of a brewed up wreck in the Desert. Not so sure now if DAK uniform had tabs / epaulettes / webbing to allow such extraction...and, frankly, not bothered about uniform details...just sad for the dead and for those who had to remove them.
What I would say, is that, seeing such photos, instead of 'Captain Hurricane' gave me a better recognition of the horrors of war...though it did NOT make me pacifist. I remember the public 'shock' when pics of burnt Iraqi vehicles came out...(that's what happens, idiots)...and my disgust over 'pub' people singing silly songs about the Taliban...or the 'sun's "Gotcher!" headline.
Warfare, in any era, is horror unleashed, my respect to those who have endured it...or will have to.

Though Donald Duck was a major achievement of American civilisation, what Disney committed against Winnie the Pooh was an atrocity.

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 20 July 2016, 01:00:43 AM
When I was young...and probably, by the rules, too young to draw out books from the 'adult' (lol) section of the library...I found a book which included a photo of a very fried (German?) tanker being 'Hooked' out of a brewed up wreck in the Desert. Not so sure now if DAK uniform had tabs / epaulettes / webbing to allow such extraction...and, frankly, not bothered about uniform details...just sad for the dead and for those who had to remove them.
What I would say, is that, seeing such photos, instead of 'Captain Hurricane' gave me a better recognition of the horrors of war...though it did NOT make me pacifist. I remember the public 'shock' when pics of burnt Iraqi vehicles came out...(that's what happens, idiots)...and my disgust over 'pub' people singing silly songs about the Taliban...or the 'sun's "Gotcher!" headline.
Warfare, in any era, is horror unleashed, my respect to those who have endured it...or will have to.

My respect to those who exert themselves to avoid it (I don't deny it will remain necessary at times until someone gets the novel commandment "Thou shalt think" accepted).

Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 July 2016, 02:37:45 AM
Though Donald Duck was a major achievement of American civilisation, what Disney committed against Winnie the Pooh was an atrocity.

I absolutely agree

Is that Donald Duck or Trump as the major achievement of American civilisation.

The effect of a penetrating hit on almost any tank was and is generally very bad news for the crew.  There are literally dozens of ways to die, from chopped up by the round when it ricochets around the vehicle once it's in to burning to death in an ammunition/fuel/hydraulic fluid fire.

The old adage that the allies could afford to loose 5 or 6 shermans to get a single tiger sounds fine in principle unless you're one of the 30 allied crewmen in those shermans.

You're better off in the Sherman - overall in direct tank to tank combat we lost @1 Sherman to every 1.1 Tigers killed Bloody Belton Cooper and his lurid massaging of the data. Mind, much worse if you're in a Panther - defensively you lose in the same 1 Sherman per 1.1 Panther killed, on the offence it's horrendously high.

The British Army Operational Research unit worked out the Allies needed a 2.2 to 1 ratio to WIN on the attack (note - not loss rate, that's much lower), and even on the defensive the Germans needed a 1.5 to 1 ratio to win a tank on tank fight :S That's from D-Day to mid August '44.

But then, despite it's faults, the Sherman was an excellent machine and very well designed, and (for the time) exceptionally reliable, easy to operate and COMFORTABLE to fight in. As the British tests showed you could do a 50km road march with a Sherman unit and it would arrive intact and in fighting trim and with crews capable of fighting. Cromwell initially broke down horribly (but got fixed), and German tanks... well, if you got 15km out of a Panther you were lucky.

Rant over. I know return you to watching FSN dribble over the greatest tank in the world