Quote from: Ithoriel on 25 March 2016, 07:31:16 PM
I don't get what people have against Fury. As war films went I thought it was pretty good.

   * Band of Brothers - tied with Rome and Deadwood for favourite TV miniseries just fractions ahead of GoT
   * Saving Private Ryan - it's a romp, I enjoyed it.
   * Anzio - yuck
   * Battle of the Bulge - see entry above
   * Allies - snore
   * Age of Heroes - competent cast, zero plot
   * Last Samurai - I liked this
   * Braveheart - The names remain the same but the plot has been changed to protect the innocent
   * The Patriot - the American Braveheart
   * Sahara - not a war movie. Indeed barely a movie at all
   * The Bridge at Remagen - OK for Saturday afternoon viewing
   * Gettysburg - I liked this one too
   * Kingdom of Heaven - beautifully shot, great cast, lavish sets and costumes but I prefer more sorcery in my Sword & Sorcery movies. It was a fantasy film, yes?
   * Patton - dreadful film about a dreadful man, played by a dreadful actor.

Haven't seen Fury yet (share Jim's reservations) but largely agree with your assessment(s). Not actually sure what you are saying but I didn't like the Patriot ... or Revolution ... but must confess I used to like Battle of the Bulge (until much better films came along).

BTW, Nosher, I happened to tune in to the end of Anzio today - Robert Mitchum did get off a shot (actually more than one) with a Tommy Gun. 

Quote from: Ithoriel on 25 March 2016, 07:31:16 PM

  * Anzio - yuck

I deliberately avoided Anzio on todays TV but I have seen it in the past.

Remind me if I correct. In the film Mitchum goes drive about in a jeep to Rome. He is filmed in various parts of Rome in sequence in what the story suggests is a quick pop in and pop out. I know Rome quite well and I can't connect the various sequences in a sensible order unless he zigged zagged all over the place several times.

I managed to miss Anzio as well. I have it in my collection but it's only worth a single watch.

Like most of the war films made nowadays you have to take the 'Hollywood Factor' into account. So a) they have to make the Americans the good 'guys' or if they are bad, they come good at the end; b) history is not set in stone but both relative and adjustable depending on the plot -by that I mean everybody's history not just their own!

Fury - not too bad until the last reel, then it went a bit daft.

U-571 -They even got the history for this one just a smidgeon wrong.  

Band of Brothers -quite enjoyed the series.

Pearl Harbour -brought it at Poundland -wouldn't ever have paid full wack for it -only for the battle scenes. The plot is total pants.

Last Samurai -not too bad at all. Ken Watanabe films are often worth a look.

Anzio -waste of celluloid.

Sahara -nothing good to say about it...at all.

Gettysburg -enjoyed this.

Patton -Got it but never seen it. Have to be bed bound to watch it.  

The Patriot -Another vehicle for that nice Antipodean to let us British know that he doesn't like us.

Brotherhood -Liked it a lot. Got a few of these foreign films and are quite good.

Thin Red Line -Bad title and a crap attempt to make an arty-farty war film.

Alexander -The manoeuvring of the phalanx was good, the cgi of the armies was impressive and even managed to eventually got over the Irish accent, but far too much emphasis on the witchery.

Some interesting points being made. In relation to WW2 there are very few depictions that get it right, we tend to get bent out of shape about tanks not being right, but its only really with SPR and BoB that the depiction of combat "feels" right. That said SPR story wise is still an old fashioned war movie that could have been made in the 50s for all its visual realism. BoB remains the gold standard for me (that's not to say its perfect).
A lot of people hate The Thin Red Line as it was expected to be a sort of SPR in the Pacific, but its not supposed to be a narrative film; if you try to follow a story it does just meander around. Its a meditation on the experience of being in a war, that's why its all internal voices and characters appearing and disappearing. Its more of a poem than a story. In the cinema I didn't get it.  I didn't quite understand this till I had it on while working, and didn't concentrate on the story, then the themes and ideas can sink in more readily.

I'm surprised Patton is disliked; its a well regarded movie (about a man who's legacy was, well, mixed)

Tae Guk Gi (Brotherhood) has lots of great combat scenes, but gets a bit overwrought towards the end.

The Patriot; a lot of people blame Mel for that film. I hate the film, but that's not really fair; he only acted in it. The real blame lies with Emmerich and Devlin, the director and producer (who also screwed up Godzilla but that's a different story) and Robert Rodat the writer (who happened also to write SPR!)
Mel can be blamed mostly for Braveheart though.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 25 March 2016, 09:04:19 PM
Not actually sure what you are saying but I didn't like the Patriot

  * Braveheart - The names remain the same but the plot has been changed to protect the innocent
  * The Patriot - the American Braveheart ... The names remain the same but the plot has been changed to protect the innocent

For me Thin Red Line suffers from being a Vietnam War film set in WW2. The attitudes are those of Vietnam, the actions those of WW2 and the mismatch trashes the film IMHO. That said setting it in Vietnam at the time it was made would probably have relegated it to left wing art house theatres in the US.

I'll throw in a vote for both Cromwell and Kingdom of Heaven, though Scott gets a little credit for knowing enough to make Saladin a good guy, as even his enemies tended to admit he was. Have to agree that Braveheart is a dishonourable runner-up.

I expect disagreement, and I've heard that it's not all that accurate, but I think as a piece of cinema Enemy at the Gate ties for the gold as the best war film I've seen with Alexander Nevsky. Note that Dr Strangelove and Barry Lyndon aren't war films.

Enemy at the Gate gets marks added or deducted for following the Russian account of the incident pretty closely depending on you views of Soviet propaganda.

It loses a point for having a wrecked T34/85 in Stalingrad when it should have been a T34-76. (There, I think that establishes my nerd credentials)

I like it very much as a film but, since FK and I are in agreement, I too expect much disagreement from the peanut gallery.

Quote from: Subedai on 25 March 2016, 09:32:47 PM
...
Patton -Got it but never seen it. Have to be bed bound to watch it.  
...

Are you looking to be slapped

George C Scott won best Actor for his portrayal of Patton, but refused to accept the nomination or collect the award. I thought it a good film about an awful man.

I thought it was an awful film about an awful general starring an awful actor.

While I'm on it, can I add "The Red Baron" (2008)? Terrible CGI, and history has it moustaches pulled.

I missed Gettysberg somewhere along the line, unless it's an alternative title for Cold Mountain. Gettysburg, on the other hand, was pretty good apart from two things: the unfeasibly fat Confederate on the picket line, and the trampolining Confederates in Pickett's Charge.

Quote from: Ithoriel on 26 March 2016, 12:02:01 AM
  * Braveheart - The names remain the same but the plot has been changed to protect the innocent
  * The Patriot - the American Braveheart ... The names remain the same but the plot has been changed to protect the innocent

Thanks, Mike (that was understood but up to that point, you hadn't made it clear if you liked them or not).  As we know, with Braveheart, historical accuracy went out the window from the word "go" - definitely a thumbs down (and worth a dishonourable runner-up, FK) but as a movie, I thought it was very good (as 5 Academy, 3 BAFTA, 1 Golden Globe awards etc. will testify) as was James Horner's film score. The Patriot was just bad; so bad, it was even offensive.

Didn't like The Thin Red Line on first viewing (was expecting another SPR) but on second viewing, saw its deeper meaning and quite enjoyed it (I wouldn't say its Vietnam set in WW2 - I'm sure the WW2 combat troops' experience was similar - the mental pressures were 'handled' in a different way by the establishment, the press and the participants at the time) . Another of that ilk is Bridge Over The River Kwai. Hated that as a lad but like it now.

Quite liked Gettysburg probably because I wasn't expecting much and so it was better than I thought (also 'nip in' now again for some painting ideas  ).

Cross of Iron - liked that the first time but caught a glimpse of it the other night and had a minor Nosher Anzio moment - funny how our tastes change!

None But The Brave -  - no.

Ice Cold in Cleethorpes was pretty grim, particularly the sequence featuring the FT17 going backwards at 50mph across the sand, AND with a hexagonal turret. Do these film makers NEVER count rivets!

I wish the local Scots would rise up in defense of the word ilk.

Only if people of that ilk paint their faces blue and white and raise their kilts.

Quote from: Leman on 26 March 2016, 08:36:28 AM
Pickett's Charge.

There's a rumour going around that a very, very distant relation of mine was first over the wall/fence.......

Gladiator - Lost interest at the beginning when the supposed chant of the Germans was actually the chant of the Zulus in Zulu.

If you thought the Omar Shaif version of Ghengis Khan was bad, it' s masterpiece compared to the John Wayne version.

Quote from: Chad on 26 March 2016, 01:36:59 PM
Gladiator - Lost interest at the beginning when the supposed chant of the Germans was actually the chant of the Zulus in Zulu.

If you thought the Omar Shaif version of Ghengis Khan was bad, it' s masterpiece compared to the John Wayne version.

I noticed that about the chant in Gladiator as well; also the bastardised version of Mars from the Planets Suite as inspirational music. Saw it once all through and thought the opening battle scenes were well done, but the rest...

As to your other comment, I've yet to see the Mr Wayne version...I'm not holding my breath.

"Red Tails" - about the Tuskegee airmen. One of the few films I thought was so bad I did not finish it. I did not even get to the bit where they sink a German destroyer with the 50 cals on a Mustang...
Cheers,
Aksu

Pearl Harbour. What a pile of s...!

Quote from: Chad on 26 March 2016, 01:36:59 PM
Gladiator - Lost interest at the beginning when the supposed chant of the Germans was actually the chant of the Zulus in Zulu

I could point you in the direction of the people responsible as well