Thanks for you comment Chris and to the other members of the forum. Very useful for a complete newbie to this period to be able to call upon your experience. I'm sure Dave and I will agree what seems best to us when we meet.

I think FOB2 (which, interestingly incorporates a number of mods I had made myself to FOB1) is perfect for this period and for 1866. When I have more time - sorry, substitute more for ANY, I'll playtest our variant and try to get it better. I love the way it introduces real unpredictability but is underpinned by the historical strengths/weaknesses of the historical armies. Also the cards are pretty 

http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/prussian-1866-1870-fob-w6znj4jr8ceb

http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/austrian1866fob-u7as57cqj7e6

http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/french-1870-fob-g1fgjpx03444

Yes, the period/nation specific cards are a real bonus. I am sorely tempted to try out my large base 10mm figures with the system by mounting a dice frame in the back corner. Furthermore they make a very good solo game possible.

Well I bit the bullet last year and made dozens of 'distressed' bases so each attrition results in one good base being substituted for a casualty one. Looks the biz and easy to do.

I am late to this discussion, but I wonder why anyone, let alone a Frenchman, would try to dig a shell scrape with his mess tin or bayonet when he had a solid 4 foot wall already made. The other advantage of using the existing walls is that you do not offer a view of newly turned chalk to the Prussians. So the Prussians think that the French line ends before St Privat, because the turned soil ends there.
When we played it we had a 16 feet by 5 feet table so using 'To the last gaiter button' we could play the whole frontage from the Mance Ravine to way north of Roncourt. We put the first 3 French corps out on the table at the start but we did not put the 6th Corps out. The impetuous Prussian player commanding the Guard, who was in his late 20s so had neither the time nor the inclination to research what actually happened, concluded that by attacking St Privat he would be able to turn the French flank. It does need some umpires and hidden unit markers to achieve this but our outcome was eerily similar to the reality.
I seem to recall that Henry Hyde took a lot of photos that may well still be on his website.

Quote from: holdfast on 13 March 2016, 08:04:31 PM
We put the first 3 French corps out on the table at the start but we did not put the 6th Corps out. The impetuous Prussian player commanding the Guard, who was in his late 20s so had neither the time nor the inclination to research what actually happened, concluded that by attacking St Privat he would be able to turn the French flank. It does need some umpires and hidden unit markers to achieve this but our outcome was eerily similar to the reality.

Was your young Prussian Guardsman miffed at being set up? Or delighted by the clever recreation of history? I can imagine him having either reaction (or perhaps even both). The former is a bit of a risk with scenarios with such built-in surprises.

We always try to give historically credible roles, so our French were sclerotic cautious 50-somethings and all the Prussians were aggressive young things. (We had one aggressive awkward old cuss who would have been an ideal Steinmetz but he was needed as an umpire). In any scenario there is usually an attacker and a defender so it is fairly easy to decide which units are on the board and which ones are represented by a flock covered counter.
The Prussians had played before so knew that the situation could change with time. As it happens our Guard commander was overcome with admiration at the way the 'gotcha' moment played out, as well as being impressed that we were able to paint the picture so well.
Interestingly, on the other flank, at the Mance Ravine, our well-posted Frenchman was so alarmed by Steinmetz that he demanded - and got- some of the Guard, thus ensuring that it was not available when the crisis at St Privat occurred. With 4 players each side and 4 umpires there was a lot of room for misunderstanding, which of course would never happen in real life!

Sounds marvelous. Bravo!

The original game Holdfast is referring to is on the forum thread FPW Battle of Gravelotte-St Privat dating back to 2010. Sorry, I am not technical enough to post a link!

Mollinary

Well remembered. But I cannot believe it was 5 years ago.
Our Mance Ravine was a 'special' from Keith Warren and was spectacular.

Aha, found it. Gorgeous game. Wish I'd been there!

Quote from: holdfast on 13 March 2016, 08:04:31 PM
I am late to this discussion, but I wonder why anyone, let alone a Frenchman, would try to dig a shell scrape with his mess tin or bayonet when he had a solid 4 foot wall already made. The other advantage of using the existing walls is that you do not offer a view of newly turned chalk to the Prussians. So the Prussians think that the French line ends before St Privat, because the turned soil ends there.
When we played it we had a 16 feet by 5 feet table so using 'To the last gaiter button' we could play the whole frontage from the Mance Ravine to way north of Roncourt. We put the first 3 French corps out on the table at the start but we did not put the 6th Corps out. The impetuous Prussian player commanding the Guard, who was in his late 20s so had neither the time nor the inclination to research what actually happened, concluded that by attacking St Privat he would be able to turn the French flank. It does need some umpires and hidden unit markers to achieve this but our outcome was eerily similar to the reality.
I seem to recall that Henry Hyde took a lot of photos that may well still be on his website.

When I was there in 2004 with RH we walked the entire frontage of 6th corps, the village only accounts for a short stretch of the line albeit a strong one. You can't put an entire corps in a village. As I recall the line stretched leftwards along an unmetaled farm track, through StP and then to the right toeards Roncourt. That they didn't entrench either of the open parts of the line was partly due to the absence of engineers (and who needs them   ) also Canrobert who's 'Beau Sabreur' nature wasn't at one with the realities of the day, while his corps was being demolished he rode up to one hard pressed unit and shouted something fatuous like' Where else should a Frenchman be but here today' blah blah. Scrapes would be preferable to nothing, the Prussian guns couldn't 'drop' their shells (no howitzers) and in all likelihood would have suffered from overshooting, this was a lesson not learned until well into WWI. A scrape is better than nothing, with effort and a couple of hours the position could have been greatly improved. If Canrobert had moved the exposed part of his line further back to the crest, better still.

I seem to recall that the wicked Prusskies had air burst shells so that most of the French who were prone in shell scrapes got wounded in the back. While if you are standing up you present a far smaller target. Not just wicked Prusskies but wicked Prussky gunners, the very worst sort as we all know.

Noooooooooooooooooooo, no air burst capability.



Later: While if you are standing up you present a far smaller target  -  you're winding me up aren't you !