Wasn't sure where to put this, but I thought it would be useful to both gamers and the Dark Overlord for his push to oust Games Workshop and Warlord.

I recently saw this on the TFL site.

*
PLEASE NOTE, DUE TO RECENT EUROPEAN UNION LEGISLATION THE FOLLOWING DELIVERY RULES NOW APPLY:

UK AND NON-EU CUSTOMERS can download PDF files immediately upon payment, After completing your payment you will be redirected to the download page and will have your product literally within seconds.

CUSTOMERS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION CAN NO LONGER DOWNLOAD FILES UPON PAYMENT. We are now required by law to physically intervene in the process and to email any PDF files to you manually. In order to comply with the legislation, we must inform you that part of the cost of the files is payment for our physical intervention.
*

I wondered "Is this accurate- ie no automatic downloads, and if so, why must they do this"

So I emailed the EU (yes, really!) and asked.

I received a very polite response, suggesting Rich had misunderstood the rules.

QuoteThank you for contacting us. As your enquiry was rather complex, we had to consult specialised services in order to prepare the answer. We apologise for the delay and any inconvenience this may have caused you.

The Consumer Rights Directive 2011/83/EU (CRD) http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083&qid=1424172337925, which lays down, among others, certain harmonised rules for distance and off-premises contracts , is applicable in all the EU countries (including the United Kingdom) as of 13 June 2014. As regards distance contracts the CRD in its Article 8(7) lays down an obligation for the trader to provide the consumer with the confirmation of the contract concluded, on a durable medium at the latest before the goods or the performance of the service begins. Such confirmation could, however, have a form of an automatic e-mail (no manually sending of document is necessary).

A more detailed explanation regarding the application of Article 8(7) of the CRD is provided on pages 35 and 36 of the Guidance document published on the European Commission's Directorate-General (DG) for Justice and Consumers website available on the following link:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-marketing/files/crd_guidance_en.pdf

It would seem that the explanation provided by the trader in your case, might be caused by incorrect interpretation of the rules of the Consumer Rights Directive. It is important to note that the same rules regarding distance contract apply in all the European Union Member States including the UK.

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions.

With kind regards,
EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre
http://europa.eu - your shortcut to the EU!

Basically , before the sale is completed (ie before down load starts) the customer has to have something the seller can not alter confirming everything.  That CAN be a email, which contains the download link.  It can't be on the website, because they are not durable - ie an evil purveyor of addictive wargames stuff extremely fantastic vendor could change it without agreement.

I'm not really sure what their reply is talking about, but it looks like they've misunderstood the situation a little.  Changes to the laws regarding supplying digital products to customers came into force on January 1st of this year.  The changes mean that VAT must be charged at the rate in the buyer's country, not the seller.  Also, the VAT threshold for digital sales outside the UK is £0, so every sale to EU countries has to have VAT included, and that VAT must be paid to that particular country.

So, if Rich sold a pdf download to a guy in France, he would have to add the French rate of VAT to that sale and then register with the French government to submit a VAT return to them.  If he sells to a chap in Germany, same thing, add German VAT to the sale and then submit a VAT return to the German government.  And so it continues, regardless of how much/ how little you sell.

The current loophole in this legislation, is that if the pdf is not an automated download, then it does not fall under the rules and you don't have to worry about all this VAT nonsense.  So Rich emails you the file instead, adding a level of human interaction to the transaction and making it a regular sale instead.

The whole situation has caused a lot of problems for a lot of people and there's been a petition for it somewhere.  This is also the reason that we're not selling Warband pdf's ourselves, using Wargame Vault instead.  (As they are based in the US, they don't have to pay attention to any of this EU VAT stuff).  It's also the reason we asked for the BKC pdf's to be taken off the BKC website before we took everything over.

There's some info on all this on the government website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers

 .. er .. very interesting and good to know (although quite useless also for us UK and non-EU resident customers) but typical of all the behind the scenes work that customers don't know about but still has to be considered, solved and paid for in some way. Can't wait for my next game of Trivial Pursuits - (rubs hands with glee) hope that question come up!

What happens when you cross The Godfather with an EU lawyer?
....... he makes you an offer you can't understand.

Hello folks,

just read this. I already thought about buying these rules  .

As I am a customer at Wargames Vault, yesterday I recognised, that your rules are available there. Today I read this topic, and then I thought, I give it a try.

And it still works, I payed via paypal. Then downloaded them afterwards. I bought two other PDF's in January, and that worked as well.

I live near Hanover in Germany. I had no problems purchasing your rulebook.

Kind Regards,

Steffen

Quote from: CPTHilts on 20 February 2015, 12:11:02 PM
Hello folks,

just read this. I already thought about buying these rules  .

As I am a customer at Wargames Vault, yesterday I recognised, that your rules are available there. Today I read this topic, and then I thought, I give it a try.

And it still works, I payed via paypal. Then downloaded them afterwards. I bought two other PDF's in January, and that worked as well.

I live near Hanover in Germany. I had no problems purchasing your rulebook.

Kind Regards,

Steffen

Quick, someone inform the Bundeszentralamt für Steuern.

Quote from: getagrip on 20 February 2015, 12:13:33 PM
Quick, someone inform the Bundeszentralamt für Steuern.

Quote from: getagrip on 20 February 2015, 12:13:33 PM
Quick, someone inform the Bundeszentralamt für Steuern.

Schnitz. 

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 February 2015, 12:26:05 PM
Schnitz. 

Slice?

Quote from: getagrip on 20 February 2015, 12:28:40 PM
Slice?

Schnitz.   Sorry, had stopped for lunch so must have been thinking Schnitzel (d'oh!).
(can we start again) 

Schnitch.   

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 February 2015, 12:34:44 PM
Schnitz.   Sorry, had stopped for lunch so must have been thinking Schnitzel (d'oh!).
(can we start again) 

Schnitch.   

Much better

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 February 2015, 12:34:44 PM
Schnitch.   

Gesundheit!

  This forum is real fun, I have never seen a forum like this before.

Quote from: CPTHilts on 20 February 2015, 01:10:31 PM
This forum is real fun, I have never seen a forum like this before.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I really like the forum. It's meant the good way. ☺

Well I think its because no really takes it very seriously. Its a forum about Tiny Fighting Men. What is there to be serious about?