Can't believe there's a discussion about how wrong it is for horses to be charging downhill, when you can accept tiny fellows with hairy feet, a ring that makes the wearer invisible and a flippin' dragon!

They're magic horses!

Those are all consistent with the world of Middle Earth in the Sacred Lore of Tolkien. Fantasy doesn't have to be consistent with the real world, but it does have to be internally consistent.

QuoteThey're magic horses

They aren't meant to be magic horses. Not even Shadowfax. Even the horses the ring wraiths ride are just black horses they had stolen from the Rohirrim. Strong breeds of horses and Shadowfax from the strongest (Meara) but not magical. I think the only magical horse in the books of LOTR is maybe The Mouth of Sauron's horse

I enjoyed the Lotr films and most of the tweaks were fine. Shame they cut out the Barriw Downs but then they'd have had to include Tom Bombadill

However, back to the point - the Rohirrim should hve been mounted on bears. They wouldn't have needed divine intervention then!

 

I enjoyed most of the LOTR films even if i'd have preferred they'd stuck closer to the books. Hated bits of them (e.g the running down collapsing stair case bit in Moria, because obviously running through dark tunnels from a horde of orcs and trolls wasn't dramatic enough).

The Hobbit films, much worse. Still some good bits in them, but the reverse of the LOTR films, more bad stuff than good. The goblin gate and great goblin scenes in the (second?) Hobbit film were just terrible. And the battle in the Battle of the Five Armies, after an ok start, went rapidly downhill into unwatchable crap.

I suppose people remember Yoshitsune's attack down a supposedly impassable cliff at Itchi no Tani? The key point there, however, is that it wasn't a charge, but a manouevre that put the Minamoto (Genji) forces in the rear of the Taira (Heike), who thought the position was secure.

I'd like to dub a line or two into the books and the movies alike: "We will win, Frodo, and against impossible odds, because the author has put it into the story, trumping any other argument."

Come to think of it, I might enjoy a rule like that in some of my games.

Quote from: Dunnadd on 24 January 2015, 08:46:23 PM
They aren't meant to be magic horses.

I know. I was just pointing out the irony of worrying about horses charging down hill and accepting the other more fantastic elements of the books and films.

It's like a few years ago when DC comics received a letter from an angry reader who complained that Catwoman would be unable to be so acrobatic with such a large chest. They replied "but you accept a man can fly, and another can make giant shapes with his will and a third can shrink to less than the size of an atom."

I understand that an indignant clergyman published a letter in an 18th-century newspaper complaining about Gulliver's Travels, saying that he "hardly believed a word of it."

Suspension of disbelief can be broken by the oddest of things. The paucity of women always gets me about Tolkien, but the films do readdress that a little (go Team Arwen!). The charge in question is one that makes me wince. The only way I can rationalise it is by the light that shines from/around/behind the Robirrim and Gandalf is Gandalf using a bit of divine wizardry. Otherwise 60 degree slope, full on charge would smash up at the bottom even before they hit the supposedly steady and waiting pike hedge!

Magicked horses.

Divinely protected by a greater angelic being horses, sure

The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.

It a bit more than dazzled a bit, and that doesn't account for the lack of injuries from the slope and impact

Gandalf's diary:
To do:
Monday, releave Helm's Deep
Tuesday, organise horse meat barbecue.

Is he working for Tesco now?

 

It would explain how the secure labelling trail got so mixed up! I can imagine the board meeting with the Meat Standards people.

. "And how did meat clearly labeled 'horse' change to lasagne labeled 'beef' whilst in your factory, mr tesco?"

"Errr, a wizard did it?!"

Quote from: Rob on 25 January 2015, 12:40:06 PM
The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.

Interesting. Does he say that in the film or only in the book?

Quote from: Rob on 25 January 2015, 12:40:06 PM
The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.

That hill is pretty high, therefore dawn in Rohan is very late in the day.

Quote from: Dunnadd on 25 January 2015, 07:21:38 PM
Interesting. Does he say that in the film or only in the book?

The film.

He says it when he leaves Aragorn and the others as they evacuate the Rohan capital, and Aragorn remembers it in the Great Hall at Helms Deep just before he suggests they ride out.

The hill is too steep to charge down and I put that down it down to the director making it as spectacular as he can. I know of no film ever made with battles portrayed that I could not criticise in some way. In this film it annoys me that they grow Urakai in pods! And the Rohan charge at the next battle to save Gondor must be by fully 250,000 cavalry, where as there were only 10,000 earlier when they left for Gondor.

And why is it every one on a castle wall shot by a bow or crossbow has to dive off the wall instead of sinking to the floor or being knocked back with the impact. 

Lindybeige does a good line in film criticism.

Archery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMi-N5exqD4

Melee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFBK-eVl76M