Santa Anna, Eisenhower, Duc de Soubise, Raglan, Cardigan, Guy of Jerusalem, Byrhtnoth, Macke, Haig, Chelmsford.

Not sure I would agree with Haig being in that list FK

Wot no Asians?

French in 1940, Persians fighting Alexander, both sides at one time or another in the ACW.

I have slightly more sympathy for WWI generals 1915-1916. No flanks, no tanks, no proper air force. Faced with prepared defenses with automatic weapons. Insufficient artillery and an army that didn't exist two years before.


Salut - FSN

And when tanks became available, they were never used to any effect. Massive attack at Cambrai, and no reserves to back it up? Damn it all!

Quote from: Fenton on 19 October 2014, 10:14:53 AM
Not sure I would agree with Haig being in that list FK

No, Haig was a most misunderstood man and general.

How about Crassus, who gave his name to incompetent foolishness, the Duke of Midonia Sidonia who commanded the Spanish Armada, Archduke Leopold at Skalitz and the Duke of Monmouth totally defeated at Sedgemoor.   

In Cambrai the British lost 180 tanks on the first day 114 of them to mechanical and other problems. The battle was never going to be a huge sweeping advance as hoped or planned for

Patton more than Eisenhower (though  Ike could have reigned him in more).  It doesn't matter how good you are as a military practitioner if you make it all about you.

Crassus is a good candidate.

Can we limit it to just ten?! Although to be fair I suspect almost all of us would have been appalling given the circumstances most military leaders command under.

We don't have the cheek to assume command of large numbers of people in a combat situation, do we?

I think the names of the truly incompetent have been lost in mists of time and only known by the troops they led to disaster

Lepidus.
Quintus Varrus.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 October 2014, 10:09:44 AM
Santa Anna, Eisenhower, Duc de Soubise, Raglan, Cardigan, Guy of Jerusalem, Byrhtnoth, Macke, Haig, Chelmsford.

You really think Haig outdoes Bernadotte for incompetence? 

I don't know the gentleman personally.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 October 2014, 10:09:44 AM
Santa Anna, Eisenhower, Duc de Soubise, Raglan, Cardigan, Guy of Jerusalem, Byrhtnoth, Macke, Haig, Chelmsford.

Santa Anna? Lost at San Jacinto and against the French but won the rest of his battles.

Eisenhower? Had to play politician while herding military cats and still conducted a successful campaign.

Duc de Soubise? La Rochelle versus the French, the Dutch and the English? Bit harsh to say he was incompetent, given the odds.

Raglan? Won at the Alma and and at Inkerman. Managed a score draw at Balaclava. Took the blame for government incompetence in the Siege of Sevastopol.

Cardigan? Give you that one

Guy of Jerusalem? Caught in the open, with his commanders squabbling like ferrets in a sack, he made the mistake of trying to move his army 14km in an afternoon in the face of a superior enemy. He could have stayed where he was and seen his army whittled away, ordered a retreat (which would have been ignored by sizeable portions of the army) or he could try to reach the comparative safety of Tiberias. The latter might have seemed the least likely option so there might have been a slight element of surprise. He gambled and lost. He was pretty much done for whatever happened.

Byrhtnoth? He could hold his ground and the Vikings would sail away and raid somewhere else or he could tempt them into a battle in an effort to save his people. He gambled. He lost. sh*t happens. He's still remembered a millennium later, what Saxon hero could hope for more?

Mack? Give you that one too. Though to be fair I'm not sure he can be said to have lost a battle. Having failed to actually fight one

Haig? I thought we'd put the "lions lead by donkeys" nonsense to bed now. No worse than any other commander at the time and a good deal better than many, I'd say.

Chelmsford? Lost a battle, won the war. Chelmsford wasn't at Isandlwana where the Brits, outnumbered about ten to one, inflicted 20% - 30% casualties on the Zulus. Like Pyrrhus, Cetshwayo would have been ruined by too many more such victories. Ulundi trumps Isandlwana, I reckon.