Pavia is about as late as where I'm interested in with my set up, so it's kind of a caricature of the stereotype of French gendarme/Swiss pike versus German men at arms and Landsknecht pike & hand gun

Agree, but you have to use Spaniards too!

Quote from: Dour Puritan on 29 August 2014, 07:30:16 AM
As mentioned on a previous thread I now play Simple Impetus, which is an upgrade of Basic Impetus. Gives a really good game in one to two hours. Also play main Impetus. Movement is definitely in inches or cms (depending on scale). Still think it is one of the best sets for playing Ancient, Mdieval and Early Renaissance. Main rules are now available on Wargames Vault as a download. Will be demoing a 28mm Italian Wars Impetus game at Battleground.

What is Simple Impetus?....Is it online?..Haven't heard of it before

Simple Impetus is a variant devised by one of my regular opponents. It is the same as Basic Impetus except:

1. Massed troops - they form a double depth unit and receive a depth bonus, even if not fresh. The VDU is for the whole unit and once the VDU reaches zero the whole double unit is removed.

2.Command Control - Moving troops around the battlefield is restricted by this rule. Three types of command depending on the army:
a) A professional army mainly of full time troops and officers, eg. Roman early Imperial, Italian Wars Spanish. these have no restriction on command.
b) A social army where command is determined by social status rather than ability, eg. Italian Wars French, Normans, Greeks. A social army can only move 4 units or groups.
c) A charismatic army where command is dependent on the personal presence of the leader, eg. Celtic warband, viking raiders (but not Alexander's Macedonians - that would be classed as professional). A charismatic army can only move two units or groups.
This does not affect shooting or continuing melees.

3. Mandated Charges - Fresh impetuous units, eg. French knights, Celtic infantry, that are within a move of the enemy and qualify for impetus bonus must charge. Foot need not charge mounted troops and only FL must charge in difficult terrain.

4. Evade - S, LC, or GCL evade from slower troops. To evade a LC or S unit, upon contact, moves backwards a full movement and becomes disordered. The contacting unit, if impetuous, must continue moving up to its maximum allowed move; other units may halt at the point of contact.

5. Massed Bow - receive a +2 dice bonus when firing.

In the firing table there are no longer A or B classes of Longbow, shortbow, composite bow crossbow, handgun, arquebus or musket. The no. of dice for 10u, 20u and 50u are as follows:
Longbow          2     1      No
Shortbow         1      0      No
Comp. bow       2     -1     No
Crossbow         2      0      No
Handgun         0      No    No
Arquebus         2      -1     No

Hope that's of some help. We find it adds a little more to the game and makes shooting a lot more straightforward.

Cheers

I will have a look and and have a quick solo go with it

Quick question - 1. Massed troops - they form a double depth unit and receive a depth bonus, even if not fresh. The VDU is for the whole unit and once the VDU reaches zero the whole double unit is removed.

Does that mean the Massed unit get "double" VDU (eg a double sized massed unit of Swiss Pike get VDU 10) or do they get a single VDU 5, but always keep their Impetus bonus and their 2/4 extra dice for depth?

The latter assumption is the correct one. The problem we were having was that the deep unit took losses from the back base, so the front base always had its impetus for a very long time. Our system gives the depth and the longer lasting impetus but not the overly long life of the unit.

Cheers, makes sense now!

Quote from: toxicpixie on 29 August 2014, 10:02:06 AM
Pavia is about as late as where I'm interested in with my set up, so it's kind of a caricature of the stereotype of French gendarme/Swiss pike versus German men at arms and Landsknecht pike & hand gun

Quote from: FierceKitty on 29 August 2014, 12:37:26 PM
Agree, but you have to use Spaniards too!

I *think* this is what I'm after. I was sure, but then I started this thread 

I've done two of my French pike blocks as "Swiss"-ish, and one in black and red as the Black Band especially for that

I kind of assume that at least some of the figures on the Imperialist bases are Spanish Or possibly entire units!

The Spanish formed a considerable part of the Imperial army during the Italian Wars. Bear in mind that Charles V, in addition to being Holy Roman Emperor, was also King of Spain (and spent most of his time in Spain). During the French invasion of Naples (then a Spanish dependency) the defending army was entirely Spanish. At Ravenna (1512) there were at least 7 regiments of Spanish infantry in the army of the Holy League. Even as late as Ceresole (1544) there were still Spanish contingents in the Imperalist army. And, yes, there were certainly entire units of them.

Incidentally, as far as painting is concerned, the Spanish believed that every man should be allowed to wear whatever he liked. The thinking was - how could you expect a man to fight well unless he was comfortable? So there would be no uniformity at all in the Spanish ranks!

True, but I must admit I couldn't resist making my Spaniards rather more uniform than everyone else. I'll answer for my sins on Judgment Day.

Quote from: Hertsblue on 30 August 2014, 09:49:29 AM
The Spanish formed a considerable part of the Imperial army during the Italian Wars. Bear in mind that Charles V, in addition to being Holy Roman Emperor, was also King of Spain (and spent most of his time in Spain). During the French invasion of Naples (then a Spanish dependency) the defending army was entirely Spanish. At Ravenna (1512) there were at least 7 regiments of Spanish infantry in the army of the Holy League. Even as late as Ceresole (1544) there were still Spanish contingents in the Imperalist army. And, yes, there were certainly entire units of them.

Incidentally, as far as painting is concerned, the Spanish believed that every man should be allowed to wear whatever he liked. The thinking was - how could you expect a man to fight well unless he was comfortable? So there would be no uniformity at all in the Spanish ranks!

Combined with the exemption from sumptuary laws due to their "short and miserable" lives for the actual "German" landsknechtes, Imperialist formations must have been a riot of colour and cloth. At least until a week in the field turns everything the same shade of mud and dust

I wonder. If your gummed velvet doublet slashed over shot silk and trimmed with hamster-fur were the one smart thing that you owned, you might spend some time washing it, I suspect. Possibly more than you spent washing yourself (such that the given value of "you" is a 16th-century Landsknecht, not a member of this forum, unless perhaps of a Cambrian and thus subterranean persuasion).
Just my three florins' worth.

I suspect that washing hamster fur might be counter-productive. 

I suppose all those washer women & seamstresses in the camp followers must be goo for something besides clogging the roads! *innocent whistle

They'd be goo only following a direct hit by French artillery.

Quote from: fred    12df on 29 August 2014, 07:53:01 AM
Also the abbreviations are quite hard to grasp having kept the original Italian letters.

I don't know if I am missing out on some good rules, as lots of people seem to like them.

I have now read them a couple of times and think I have a grasp of them  .  But I have already decided to re type them with more English abbreviations.   This will be about project 23 in my list so may be a while .  When done I will make them avaliable.

There are a series of tutorials on You Tube which provide an excellent introduction to Basic Impetus.  They are by Kurtus Brown and can be found here:   

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDXX1Xs-oSbXFqt9lAd706sPcC0id9QY0

Ian

Having a big (28mm) French v Spanish Italian Wars Impetus game tomorrow. Will try to remember to take some photos.