Any chance that Pendraken will do 10mm bears in the future - there's a certain company that has them in their army lists but don't actually sell any...
Could be a niche in the market there!
Have my vote, I also need some bears or combat bears for an army
Are we talking armoured bears on all fours, or upright bears with weapons?
Oooh...good idea.
I'd say;
Bears
Giant bears
Armoured bears (Lion,Witch,Wardrobe?)
Bears being ridden by 'Russian' types
Were-bears
all proposes are good for me. But maybe the more interest is having bears (the animal) four legs or/and attacking at two legs. To be driven like a herd to combat (a bearmaster, mounted on a bear could be great). That is how I see them, but any aproach to concept "bear" will be soported by me
A vote from downunder for bears. They'd go great with my Wood Elf army which uses Tree Elementals as behemoths at the minute for a spot of punch. Bears would make great beasts or behemoths in their own right (HOTT)
Hell yes for Bears. I could use one even for mascot.
Warning, adult language...
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bear_cavalry (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bear_cavalry)
:D ;D 8) ;D :D
:D
soooo cool !!!!
Sovietic bears to expand the alternative WWII (desert rats range)
Yes please, lotsa bears. Some to fit the Un-GW Kislev list too.
Bears on all 4's - a la Kislev Warmaster armies!
We might also need a hero type on a bear and a mage type on a bear!
Proper bears please all fours and on 2 legs
can i just clarify that Bears, Giant bears, Armoured bears, Russian fantasy bears, Were-bears and Soviet bears are all different models and count as seperate votes in the wish list league table ? ;D
Not that i am worried that my Mounted Generals are going to get outvoted by all you bear-fetishists of course........ :o
Well that's a lot of interest for bears right there. Now do you want black, brown or polar.....?!
I have no preference particulary, in my opinion I let the sculptor choose, but is very pleasent to read a question like that - just my two cents
Sure. Why not bears?
Throw in some hippos while you're at it. ;)
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: Leon on 19 July 2010, 07:16:45 PM
Well that's a lot of interest for bears right there. Now do you want black, brown or polar.....?!
Care. ;D
Quote from: Leon on 19 July 2010, 07:16:45 PM
Well that's a lot of interest for bears right there. Now do you want black, brown or polar.....?!
Gummi :P
Don't know if they taste the same in metal, though...
Hair. A bunch of them.
Quote from: Leon on 19 July 2010, 07:16:45 PM
Well that's a lot of interest for bears right there. Now do you want black, brown or polar.....?!
...Naked Ladies. (well, someone had to) :P
No, no, no...I was meaning these:
You filthy-minded rascals ;)
Good post Nik.
LOVE Barenaked Ladies...
...'boom anime babes that make me think the wrong thing'...
Love it!
Their album's top notch and always in the player in my car (although in these straightened times, with the Tories ressurecting the '80s, i'm currently driving along to my old God's Little Monkeys tracks...)
One more vote!.
How about one of these taxi bears:
(http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/taxibear.jpg)
:D
One more vote!!
Quote from: Megamatman on 21 July 2010, 11:02:05 AM
How about one of these taxi bears:
(http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/taxibear.jpg)
:D
Tell me you didn't Google "taxi bear"...please... :o ;D
You lot are unbearable...
:'(
Quote from: nikharwood on 21 July 2010, 10:54:52 PM
Tell me you didn't Google "taxi bear"...please... :o ;D
I may have :-[ :D :D
Quote from: Leon on 22 July 2010, 12:20:45 AM
You lot are unbearable...
:'(
Bear with us...we'll improve over time ;) :P ;D
Quote from: Leon on 19 July 2010, 07:16:45 PM
Well that's a lot of interest for bears right there. Now do you want black, brown or polar.....?!
Bears - Polar Bear, Grizzly, Panda, Big Brown, Kodiak, Teddy, Koala, Black Bears, Chicago.... oops how did that get in :p
Speaking of bears, there's a rather interesting song about Yogi bear...
(to the tune of Camptown Races)
"Yogi's d**k is long and green, cucum, cucum,
Yogi's d**k is long and green, cu-cu-cucum bear.
Cu-cu-cucum bear, cu-cu-cucum bear,
Yogi's d**k is long and green, cu-cu-cucumber."
Followed by interesting verses about "Cindy likes it in the fridge - polar", etc., etc.
Just thought I'd share that...
;D
Wow :o
Quote from: Leon on 23 July 2010, 12:44:05 AM
Speaking of bears, there's a rather interesting song about Yogi bear...
(to the tune of Camptown Races)
Just thought I'd share that...
;D
Someone has been trawling youtube :) for a Yogi Bear Theme :P
Quote from: Dazza on 23 July 2010, 02:17:29 PM
Someone has been trawling youtube :) for a Yogi Bear Theme :P
There's more to Scouts than tents and woggles... you get to play with fire and knives and learn dirty songs!
:P
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff44/lentulus/bear.jpg)
LOL. Love those last few lines!
;D ;D 8) ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Leon on 23 July 2010, 12:44:05 AM
Followed by interesting verses about "Cindy likes it in the fridge - polar", etc., etc.
I'd better report this post to the global modera...
Wait..
Oh Jees.. :o
:D ;D
This one of yours?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10753021
;D
Quote
Bears
Giant bears
Armoured bears (Lion,Witch,Wardrobe?)
Bears being ridden by 'Russian' types
Were-bears
I'd like this too and would very likely buy some (if i could get to see photos of them)
Quote from: nikharwood on 25 July 2010, 01:21:42 PM
This one of yours?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10753021
;D
Naw, those American bears are too lazy to walk. ;)
This fellow is not that far from here
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/08/14/ns-bear-garbage.html
Quote from: lentulus on 15 August 2010, 10:30:22 PM
This fellow is not that far from here
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/08/14/ns-bear-garbage.html
See if you can put a helmet on it and take a picture for the sculptor...?
:D
Well it may be late, but I add my vote here :)
My vote too. ;)
Votes added!
8)
+1
I have used some 15mm bears from demonworld for my 15mm wood elf army:
http://www.athens-fantasy.gr/2009/01/15mm-wood-elves-for-hordesof-the-things-andreas/
would be cool to have something similar for 10mm (and it could be used for a certain fantasy human army in a game I like.....)
Quote from: Leon on 04 February 2012, 05:49:31 AM
Votes added!
8)
Looks like I missed saying yes earlier!
Any chance of adding in those two great fantasy RPG classics to any range: the Jack O'Bear and owlbear?
Also, from the wonderful world of real bears, Paddingto's buff great, great, great ... great uncle: the short-faced running bear,
Arctodus simus. Bigger than a polar bear, fast as a horse; a must-have for any discerning/sadistic "Tusk" player! :d
Hat and wellies optional... :-\ ;)
Cheers,
Meirion
Arctodus simus - a bear that may have acquired it's lunch by intimidating sabre toothed tigers and dire wolves into giving up theirs and which left claw marks 15ft up on the walls of it's cave. Basically it's evolution going,"Darn, don't have a 10mm scale bear .... never mind this 15mm scale one will do instead!" :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 29 July 2013, 04:01:56 PM
Arctodus simus - a bear that may have acquired it's lunch by intimidating sabre toothed tigers and dire wolves into giving up theirs and which left claw marks 15ft up on the walls of it's cave. Basically it's evolution going,"Darn, don't have a 10mm scale bear .... never mind this 15mm scale one will do instead!" :)
:D :-bd
Bears would be useful. At least three poses though :-bd
We were promised crocodiles a long time ago.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/529918_10151397996964463_685229432_n.jpg)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 26 October 2013, 11:44:29 PM
We were promised crocodiles a long time ago.
I WILL send that up to Leon soon FK....It's been sitting (safely) in a box ready to go for AGES !....Sorry... I keep forgetting to dig it out when I send figures to Leon.
'B'.....I simply love that bear !!....You've done a
cracking job on that !.....Can you put it against a PD figure for scale ?
Cheers - Phil.
Thats very nice barbarian - unfortunately I have no idea how big a 2 euro cent coin is.
2c is 18.75mm, so a bit smaller than a UK penny (at 20mm)
My camera just died on me. >:(
He looks a smiley old bear.
Ooooh that's nice :-bd :-bd
Get them done quick before Eureka reach their 300 club total.
Bears, winged hussars, war-wagons .... once the bears are available I might need to get a Kievlev army ;)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 27 October 2013, 01:16:54 PM
Bears, winged hussars, war-wagons .... once the bears are available I might need to get a Kievlev army ;)
Funnily enough a lot of people waiting on eureka are saying exactly the same.
My camera is alive.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QQmLs-mExTc/Um007cq657I/AAAAAAAAAgE/THLqhIGw32A/w958-h719-no/27ottobre2013+001.jpg)
Very nice =D>
That's so cool!
Great! Well done, B
Forgot to ask are the bears for production or personal use?
Don't know. I made a dwarf on his back too.
Now that I would buy a bunch of. :D :D
Yep I would buy some of them for sure. Barbarian sculpts are superb!
We would like some bears doing, it would certainly tick off one of the more popular requests. Ideally, we would need 3 poses of them (standing on two feet / running / standing on all fours), and then we could mould them and convert them into armoured and mounted versions as well. Sizewise, a bear stood up on it's hind legs is probably around 10 feet tall, so in our scale would be something in the 18-20mm tall region. On all fours they would be 10mm or so to the ridge of the back.
8)
This one is 9 mm high. (10 with the little base)
I could make him higher without difficulties.
Quote from: Leon on 04 November 2013, 12:53:55 AM
We would like some bears doing, it would certainly tick off one of the more popular requests. Ideally, we would need 3 poses of them (standing on two feet / running / standing on all fours), and then we could mould them and convert them into armoured and mounted versions as well. Sizewise, a bear stood up on it's hind legs is probably around 10 feet tall, so in our scale would be something in the 18-20mm tall region. On all fours they would be 10mm or so to the ridge of the back.
8)
Yey
Something like these would be good:
(http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/images/2008/08/14/brown_bear_rearing.jpg)
(http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bear-Attack.jpg)
(http://crapwife.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/bear.jpg)
You do take a good photo Leon.
IanS
Slightly worried one of those photos is from "Ammoland"?
Quote from: fsn on 05 November 2013, 08:12:45 AM
Slightly worried one of those photos is from "Ammoland"?
Try typing in10mm bears into google and you will see why. Evidently a lot of people want to know if a 10mm weapon will stop a bear. Prehaps ammoland can answer that question. :-\
Rather than debate the advantages and disadvantages of 10mm vs .357 Magnum they should just follow this advice:
"The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area.
People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper."
An oldy but a goody :)
I've always liked that one. ;D ;D ;D
(From the first time I saw it, anyway ;))
Cheers - Phil
Could we trade ammoland's bear for this one
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/rupert_02.gif) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/rupert_02.gif.html)
The top bear's claws paws look a bit like furry gloves to me. :-\
Cheers - Phil.
I knew I had seen that top bear somewhere ... its the MUller Rice bear.....still dont see why they use a bear to sell rice pudding but hey ...
Excellent Barbarian!
I'd have like to see them slightly bigger (+10% maybe), but these will work well. The pose is useful too as it can accomodate a rider.
:D
Quoteits the MUller Rice bear.....still dont see why they use a bear to sell rice pudding but hey ...
It's because advertising executives are winkers and should be killed
Quote from: Leon on 04 November 2013, 12:53:55 AM
We would like some bears doing, it would certainly tick off one of the more popular requests. Ideally, we would need 3 poses of them (standing on two feet / running / standing on all fours), and then we could mould them and convert them into armoured and mounted versions as well. Sizewise, a bear stood up on it's hind legs is probably around 10 feet tall, so in our scale would be something in the 18-20mm tall region. On all fours they would be 10mm or so to the ridge of the back.
8)
Doing whom - Goldilocks?
Apologies for the threadomancy, but is there any news on these? I'd love to see these make the cut!
Quote from: MattW on 29 September 2014, 11:02:55 AM
Apologies for the threadomancy, but is there any news on these? I'd love to see these make the cut!
No news unfortunately, we've had too much on in other ranges to get them sculpted. We are working on some other Fantasy bits and bobs, so we might try and add them into that next year.
8)
Since Pendraken don't currently do them I'll risk being spoken to severely next time I meet Leon and say that I got a couple of packs of bears and wolves from Bend Sinister which I thought were rather nice
http://www.bendsinister.co.uk/shop.php?CatID=3128
They are on my desk almost finished for ages.
;(
Quote from: Ithoriel on 29 September 2014, 07:01:53 PM
Since Pendraken don't currently do them I'll risk being spoken to severely next time I meet Leon and say that I got a couple of packs of bears and wolves from Bend Sinister which I thought were rather nice
http://www.bendsinister.co.uk/shop.php?CatID=3128
Oooo, below the belt, ref! Public warning there!
Just rewatched the Goldern Compass.
Bears please!
Polar, with stinking great armour! ;)
Very much needed :D Great idea!
Though Magister M's Dwarves on bears are nice...
I don't condemn other people for liking dwarves riding bears, but i don't hold with them myself. Dwarf and "cavalry" just seem like they don't mix for me. And what would Beorn have done if some dwarf had tried to ride him like a horse? Slapped him up the side of the head at the least.*
* = not Giant Eyebrows Beorn from Peter F****** Jackson's film in which he actually manages to f*** up the Battle of the Five Armies and make most of it a combination of tedious and impossible to suspend disbelief on at the same time, but the real Beorn
You wouldn't ride a shape changing beat, every time it transformed your saddle would fall off!
Horses are for wimps, so dwarves on bears is perfect sense. Or possibly giant wolverines. Not great for lighter cavalry though, which is where the war goats come in.
Quote from: Dunnadd on 22 January 2015, 09:32:20 PM
I don't condemn other people for liking dwarves riding bears, but i don't hold with them myself. Dwarf and "cavalry" just seem like they don't mix for me. And what would Beorn have done if some dwarf had tried to ride him like a horse? Slapped him up the side of the head at the least.*
* = not Giant Eyebrows Beorn from Peter F****** Jackson's film in which he actually manages to f*** up the Battle of the Five Armies and make most of it a combination of tedious and impossible to suspend disbelief on at the same time, but the real Beorn
hear, hear :D
Apparently dwarves ride pigs?
Anyway, fantasy bears would be very useful thank you. Were-bears too. And were-wolves.
:)
And people say I'm bonkers.
Pigs?! That's Orcs! Goes with the matching noses.
Bears all the way. And goats. Or sheep. Not totally sure, and as I have to paint the eyes on myself they might be either.
No - Dwarves don't ride sheep, that's reserved for a westerly area of the UK that claims to be a separate nation....
IanS
That's a different kind of "ride" ;)
Quote from: Luddite on 23 January 2015, 08:24:00 AM
Apparently dwarves ride pigs?
Anyway, fantasy bears would be very useful thank you. Were-bears too. And were-wolves.
:)
What about were-pigs?
Were are they ?
IanS
"Were-wolf?"
"There wolf!"
Someone had to do it :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 23 January 2015, 02:34:12 PM
"Were-wolf?"
"There wolf!"
Someone had to do it :)
Yes. Yes, you did ;D
Quote from: ianrs54 on 23 January 2015, 01:56:03 PM
Were are they ?
IanS
They were rubbish at building houses and are now in the were-wolf....
+6 if we get armoured bears with Dwarven lancers mounted on them (obviously led by Gandalf on a great big white one) Lets seriously screw up the Helm's Deep cavalry rescue. :d
Quote from: GordonY on 23 January 2015, 04:25:36 PM
+6 if we get armoured bears with Dwarven lancers mounted on them (obviously led by Gandalf on a great big white one) Lets seriously screw up the Helm's Deep cavalry rescue. :d
Gandalf at Helm's Deep on a Great White ... wouldn't that be "jumping the shark"? ;)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 23 January 2015, 05:03:54 PM
Gandalf at Helm's Deep on a Great White ... wouldn't that be "jumping the shark"? ;)
See Phil - he's holding the chewed rag that used to be your coat.....
IanS
Uuuuuugh !
It's got Nobby saliva all over it !
Cheers - Phil
*phut* Sorry *curg* I've *snurt* got a cold.
I ate the mints in your pocket - FSN
But you ate the pocket too!
... and I don't think they were mints.
My tongue feels funny. :(
Camphor does that to you..,
Quote from: fsn on 23 January 2015, 07:47:03 PM
My tongue feels funny. :(
Those were horse tranquilizers, you muppet !
It won't be just your tongue that feels funny, in a few minutes....
Sheesh !
Cheers - Phil
GordonY wrote Quote+6 if we get armoured bears with Dwarven lancers mounted on them (obviously led by Gandalf on a great big white one) Lets seriously screw up the Helm's Deep cavalry rescue. Evil
;D yeah - i suppose the LOTR films could have been worse. I was annoyed enough that the Rohirrim charged pikemen (well pike-uruks) in the Helm's Deep scene in the films, pikemen who had their pikes levelled against them, and rode them down. I was all "that's historically inaccurate, cavalry couldn't ride down pikemen" (unless the pikemen were disorganised by archery or spread out, or they hit them in the flank or rear while they were engaged to the front etc)
You'll like this, but not a lot!
Thaaaats MAGIC!
Quote from: Dunnadd on 23 January 2015, 10:07:33 PM
GordonY wrote
;D yeah - i suppose the LOTR films could have been worse. I was annoyed enough that the Rohirrim charged pikemen (well pike-uruks) in the Helm's Deep scene in the films, pikemen who had their pikes levelled against them, and rode them down. I was all "that's historically inaccurate, cavalry couldn't ride down pikemen" (unless the pikemen were disorganised by archery or spread out, or they hit them in the flank or rear while they were engaged to the front etc)
Absolutely agree.
What about the fact that the Rohirrim carry shields and never use the dam' things? Or that there are only 10, 000 orcs at the battle of the Black Gates (it's clear enough that that many die putting in Sauron's contact lens in the morning)? Or the elven archers never miss or fail to kill? Or that mangonels smash major fortifications at the first shot? Or....where are the tablets?
Quote from: Dunnadd on 23 January 2015, 10:07:33 PM
GordonY wrote
;D yeah - i suppose the LOTR films could have been worse. I was annoyed enough that the Rohirrim charged pikemen (well pike-uruks) in the Helm's Deep scene in the films, pikemen who had their pikes levelled against them, and rode them down. I was all "that's historically inaccurate, cavalry couldn't ride down pikemen" (unless the pikemen were disorganised by archery or spread out, or they hit them in the flank or rear while they were engaged to the front etc)
While Swiss pike were, in their day, quite formidable I don't imagine they would have stood much of a chance if the French or Burgundian cavalry charge had been lead by the archangel Michael. Which is pretty much the situation in LOTR.
Were Swiss pike much harder than others of their kin, because the lakes they lived in, were so much colder for most of the year ?
Cheers - Phil
Sir! Sir! Techno just made a fish joke!
Someone put him in his plaice.
I'd just tuna'd out ...
Anchovy brill trout herring?
(Cor, talk about easy posting-inflation!)
Ok guys calm down you'll upset Mad Lemmy that's too many fish jokes in a roe
ArGGGGH.......
IanS
"If the French or Burgundian cavalry were lead...", generally they are unless they are plastic. Surprised FK didn't spot that one.
Present tense - I lead you lead etc.
Past tense - I led you led etc.
What Ithoriel said - those Orc pike were boned as soon as Gandalf led the charge. They'd have killed their horses and broken their necks charging down a 45degree rubble and scree slope even before they hit the steady pike...
With the shining light of the Valar on them they not only managed a knightly charge through terrain that would fox skirmishers but their target was broken before they hit. Cheatin' angelic wizards! Who needs shields or tactics when you're divinely protected?!
Quote from: Leman on 24 January 2015, 09:45:45 AM
"If the French or Burgundian cavalry were lead...", generally they are unless they are plastic. Surprised FK didn't spot that one.
Present tense - I lead you lead etc.
Past tense - I led you led etc.
I have to leave a few sitting ducks for the less Annie-Oakley-like here to shoot.
In DBM terms:
Irregular Fast knights (Kn(F)) charging across difficult going (DGo) into frontal contact with Regular Exceptional bows (Bow(X)). The orc commander gave the order 'form ranks, spears in front, archers behind'.
The only way they could make it down the hill is by an impetuous advance (they weren't in column, and i doubt Gandalf had enough PiPs to get them all down the hill in formation).
Shooting on the way in IrrKn(F) +4 vs RBow(X) +4 = honours even.
At impact IrrKn(F) +3 vs RBow(X) (which count as Bw(S) vs mounted troops in melee +4 = bowmen have the advantage. They will also definitely have overlaps on the outer edges giving a +4/+2 advangate to roll across the line.
The knights are 'destroyed by (S) bowmen whose front they moved into contact with this bound'.
The bowmen are 'destroyed by any mounted troops in contact'.
So...its going to be brutal, and along the line the knights should get decimated.
I'm calling shenanigans on Gandalf's dice rolls...
But you are forgetting the 'rule of cool'!
I'd have thought the Uruk-Hai were actually deep ranked Pike (o) with Psiloi supporting (if DBehatever allows that now/still/sometime in one of the revisions!), leaving them of something like a +7/8 versus the Knights +3 or less as they'd be at least in partial DGo and iirc at least some of DBM revisions mean they get utterly boned by that... Negative combat factor and insta-kill?
It's all that cheatin' wizards fault, either way.
Two generals in the first rank +anything?
At least they did the charge at Pelannor Fields for real!
Under the circumstances, they'd be getting off lightly with decimation. I'd think annihilation more likely.
Errrr that hill was nearer 60° than 45°... Riding down a 45 degree slope holding a lance means you are lying backwards over the the horse...oh and there was no galloping involved....
Quote from: Ithoriel on 24 January 2015, 01:50:32 AM
While Swiss pike were, in their day, quite formidable I don't imagine they would have stood much of a chance if the French or Burgundian cavalry charge had been lead by the archangel Michael. Which is pretty much the situation in LOTR.
Fair point, Gandalf is a maia, pretty much a demi-god, but there's no mention in the book of him using any magic, nor of the orcs/half orcs/uruks/dunlendings being formed up with pikes.
Magic in middle earth is usually used sparingly even by wizards and other powerful magic users, with its use exhausting them quickly (at least in the Third Age). Doubt any magic user had the power to make a whole army of horsemen capable of riding down pikemen who were facing them (still less on the very steep slope shown in the film, as others have pointed out).
In the book it was the combination of a whole forest of ents and huorns turning up, combined with the Rohirrim attack led by Gandalf and Eomer that broke Saruman's forces morale, not just one cavalry charge.
Techno wrote QuoteWere Swiss pike much harder than others of their kin, because the lakes they lived in, were so much colder for most of the year ?
I'm sure that wasn't a minnowmal factor. Also living at higher altitudes they'd have more stamina. They'd still be full of energy when the enemy were floundering due to exhaustion, leaving them open to terrible injuries which would require the attentions of a sturgeon at the least, an undertaker at worst.
No mention in the book, true - but then that charge is very different in the book! In the film the cavalry charge down a very steep slope covered in rubble at speed (although in slow-mo, they're moving pretty darn fast - and as maenoferren points out they're lying almost flat back as they do!). No one falls, let alone the whole lot end up as a pile of lasagne at the bottom as would likely happen "in reality". And then, before they hit, the light not only blinds the Uruks but causes them to drop pikes, and break formation. Even then I'd expect quite a lot if injury from piling horses into such a mass BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE HURT ARE ORCS!
Now, that's an exact fit for how the most powerful "good" magic tends to work in middle-earth. The divinely protected just roll on through with seemingly "natural" effects mysteriously embuggering the bad guys allowing ten to be chopped down at will. See Elronds "whoops, a major river just went into a tsunami and swept away a whole passle of ring wraiths" or even the crossing of care idris where mysterious weather suddenly appeared and hey look it winter and we're forced off to Moria...
Sorry, bit shouty there - but whether it's entirely true to the book or not, the charge in the film is quite clearly divinely protected both from terrain and injury, whilst the pike is broken even before contact. All courtesy of Gandalf the "Hey look I'm now a divine being who can use his powers, someone hold my mead & watch this lads!" White :)
Otherwise it'd be rohirrim-kebab and welcome to Helms Deep, home of industry and commerce.
;D yes, maybe, fair point , but the film is RONG, RONG, RONG, should've been like it was in the book etc.
I didn't interpret it as Gandalf using magic in the film, but just as one of Jackson's stupid special effects scenes where he thinks his imagination is better than Tolkein's and is wrong.
e.g in the final film of The Hobbit , there's a scene where Legolas runs off an old bridge faster than it can collapse into a chasm. Legolas has no magical powers, but Jackson still has him doing something which destroys any possibility of suspending disbelief, presumably on the theory that it looks impressive (it doesn't, it looks terrible). The charge at Helm's Deep in the Two Towers film isn't quite as bad, but still seemed like the same kind of thing to me.
I could be wrong though, could be meant to be Gandalf using magic in the film. EDIt - watching a clip on youtube, there is bright light for a moment from Gandalf during the charge and orcs seeming to be blinded by it, but their pikes are still levelled
And so, i put it to you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that Peter Jackson must be made to pay for his crimes against Tolkien, crimes ten times worse than the Holocaust, and that the only sentence that will provide justice would be his death, torn apart by a giant bear, while dressed as Bolg son of Azog, as part of a much better remake of The Battle of the Five Armies.
Can't believe there's a discussion about how wrong it is for horses to be charging downhill, when you can accept tiny fellows with hairy feet, a ring that makes the wearer invisible and a flippin' dragon!
They're magic horses!
Those are all consistent with the world of Middle Earth in the Sacred Lore of Tolkien. Fantasy doesn't have to be consistent with the real world, but it does have to be internally consistent.
QuoteThey're magic horses
They aren't meant to be magic horses. Not even Shadowfax. Even the horses the ring wraiths ride are just black horses they had stolen from the Rohirrim. Strong breeds of horses and Shadowfax from the strongest (Meara) but not magical. I think the only magical horse in the books of LOTR is maybe The Mouth of Sauron's horse
I enjoyed the Lotr films and most of the tweaks were fine. Shame they cut out the Barriw Downs but then they'd have had to include Tom Bombadill ;)
However, back to the point - the Rohirrim should hve been mounted on bears. They wouldn't have needed divine intervention then!
;D
I enjoyed most of the LOTR films even if i'd have preferred they'd stuck closer to the books. Hated bits of them (e.g the running down collapsing stair case bit in Moria, because obviously running through dark tunnels from a horde of orcs and trolls wasn't dramatic enough).
The Hobbit films, much worse. Still some good bits in them, but the reverse of the LOTR films, more bad stuff than good. The goblin gate and great goblin scenes in the (second?) Hobbit film were just terrible. And the battle in the Battle of the Five Armies, after an ok start, went rapidly downhill into unwatchable crap.
I suppose people remember Yoshitsune's attack down a supposedly impassable cliff at Itchi no Tani? The key point there, however, is that it wasn't a charge, but a manouevre that put the Minamoto (Genji) forces in the rear of the Taira (Heike), who thought the position was secure.
I'd like to dub a line or two into the books and the movies alike: "We will win, Frodo, and against impossible odds, because the author has put it into the story, trumping any other argument."
Come to think of it, I might enjoy a rule like that in some of my games.
Quote from: Dunnadd on 24 January 2015, 08:46:23 PM
They aren't meant to be magic horses.
I know. I was just pointing out the irony of worrying about horses charging down hill and accepting the other more fantastic elements of the books and films.
It's like a few years ago when DC comics received a letter from an angry reader who complained that Catwoman would be unable to be so acrobatic with such a large chest. They replied "but you accept a man can fly, and another can make giant shapes with his will and a third can shrink to less than the size of an atom."
I understand that an indignant clergyman published a letter in an 18th-century newspaper complaining about Gulliver's Travels, saying that he "hardly believed a word of it."
Suspension of disbelief can be broken by the oddest of things. The paucity of women always gets me about Tolkien, but the films do readdress that a little (go Team Arwen!). The charge in question is one that makes me wince. The only way I can rationalise it is by the light that shines from/around/behind the Robirrim and Gandalf is Gandalf using a bit of divine wizardry. Otherwise 60 degree slope, full on charge would smash up at the bottom even before they hit the supposedly steady and waiting pike hedge!
Magicked horses.
Divinely protected by a greater angelic being horses, sure :)
The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.
:)
It a bit more than dazzled a bit, and that doesn't account for the lack of injuries from the slope and impact ;)
Gandalf's diary:
To do:
Monday, releave Helm's Deep
Tuesday, organise horse meat barbecue.
Is he working for Tesco now?
=O :-bd
It would explain how the secure labelling trail got so mixed up! I can imagine the board meeting with the Meat Standards people.
. "And how did meat clearly labeled 'horse' change to lasagne labeled 'beef' whilst in your factory, mr tesco?"
"Errr, a wizard did it?!"
Quote from: Rob on 25 January 2015, 12:40:06 PM
The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.
:)
Interesting. Does he say that in the film or only in the book?
Quote from: Rob on 25 January 2015, 12:40:06 PM
The clue is in Gandalfs earlir remark "...look for me at dawn of the 5th(?) day....." They hit the pikes just after the sun has appeared over the hill and temporarily blinded them. That my interpretaion.
:)
That hill is pretty high, therefore dawn in Rohan is very late in the day.
Quote from: Dunnadd on 25 January 2015, 07:21:38 PM
Interesting. Does he say that in the film or only in the book?
The film.
He says it when he leaves Aragorn and the others as they evacuate the Rohan capital, and Aragorn remembers it in the Great Hall at Helms Deep just before he suggests they ride out.
The hill is too steep to charge down and I put that down it down to the director making it as spectacular as he can. I know of no film ever made with battles portrayed that I could not criticise in some way. In this film it annoys me that they grow Urakai in pods! And the Rohan charge at the next battle to save Gondor must be by fully 250,000 cavalry, where as there were only 10,000 earlier when they left for Gondor.
And why is it every one on a castle wall shot by a bow or crossbow has to dive off the wall instead of sinking to the floor or being knocked back with the impact. :)
Lindybeige does a good line in film criticism.
Archery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMi-N5exqD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMi-N5exqD4)
Melee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFBK-eVl76M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFBK-eVl76M)
;D ;D
Every one a coconut ;D =O
QuoteIn this film it annoys me that they grow Urakai in pods!
yeah - that annoyed me too
Movies in 15 minutes does a good parody of Lotr - amongst others!
Sadly on the book not Lj version so needs buying - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cut-Movies-Fifteen-Minutes-Gollancz/dp/0575079894/
Looks like bears will be a popular request again:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/03/bbcs-his-dark-materials-philip-pullman
Sweeeeet :D
So, armoured bears, when-when-when?!
There is no mention of any Pike armed Orc types in the Lord of the Rings books. It was something they wee armed with only in the film , I expect for the visual effect.
i think four legged bears would be best since they can used as mounts or just bears, which i know a lot of armies would like to have them as cavalry
Prod.
Just because... ;)
(http://cdn3.meme.am/cache/instances/folder639/500x/78383639/dr-evil-and-his-minions-meanwhile-at-pendraken-hq-someones-asked-for-fantasy-bears-again.jpg)
I would like to dedicate this thread to this guy if it's OK
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Ten_bears.jpg)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bears
Quote from: mad lemmey on 03 November 2015, 05:52:50 PM
Looks like bears will be a popular request again:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/03/bbcs-his-dark-materials-philip-pullman
Yet 4 years later, still no justice.
Quote from: Orcs on 03 November 2015, 09:29:36 PM
There is no mention of any Pike armed Orc types in the Lord of the Rings books. It was something they wee armed with only in the film , I expect for the visual effect.
They were in the film to spread the under-recognised truth that the best way to defeat pikemen is to charge them frontally with cavalry over difficult terrain.
Now, more than ever, we need armoured bears
Quote from: mad lemmey on 01 December 2019, 08:37:49 PM
Now, more than ever, we need armoured bears
Well.....Bears
have now made it onto my list of things to make......Along with absolutely SHED loads of other stuff. :o :o :o
I'll ask sir if I can do them soon. :)
Though I think the armoured ones will have to wait until I've made the 'plain' ones, to make things easier.
Getting them 'the right size' is probably going to be the hardest thing.
Cheers - Phil
One one answer to that un WORK FASTER
Nothing like being predicable... ;D ;D
Quote from: Dunnadd on 23 January 2015, 10:07:33 PM
GordonY wrote
;D yeah - i suppose the LOTR films could have been worse. I was annoyed enough that the Rohirrim charged pikemen (well pike-uruks) in the Helm's Deep scene in the films, pikemen who had their pikes levelled against them, and rode them down. I was all "that's historically inaccurate, cavalry couldn't ride down pikemen" (unless the pikemen were disorganised by archery or spread out, or they hit them in the flank or rear while they were engaged to the front etc)
Stuff I learned form Lord of the Rings films.
1. Besieging a fortress - bring Pikes.
2. Attacking pikes - send horsemen downhill against their front - steeper the better.
3. Orc henchmen are terrified by shadow-puppets.
4. Dark lord with a massive trollkind thrall - leave it at home on door winding duty.
5. Use gunpowder only once, revert to battering rams for every following siege.
6. G-g-g-g-hosts!!!!!
Pikes, charging horses and sunrise...
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 02 December 2019, 07:23:55 PM
Stuff I learned form Lord of the Rings films.
1. Besieging a fortress - bring pikes.
2. Attacking pikes - send horsemen downhill against their front - steeper the better.
3. Orc henchmen are terrified by shadow-puppets.
4. Dark lord with a massive trollkind thrall - leave it at home on door winding duty.
5. Use gunpowder only once, revert to battering rams for every following siege.
6. G-g-g-g-hosts!!!!!
7. 10, 000 = irresistible host that will bring about a new Darkness without end.
8. Correct use of air superiority - use it exclusively on rescue missions.
9. Correct function of scout - immediate impetuous attack.
10. Tactical response to being outnumbered, with steep mountains on both flanks - contract line to allow enemy to surround one, and adopt a solid formation to prevent most of one's force from hitting anyone.
11. Shields are for flapping unused at one's side, never for blocking or deflecting an attack.
12. If elephants are far bigger than usual, horses cease to be afraid of them.
13. Lines from the novel should if possible be included in different contexts where they make no sense (mind you, this happens in the James Bond movies too, not to mention the
Nibelungenlied).
To be fair, the charging cavalry coming out of the sunrise are lead by the equivalent of an archangel!
Are they lead? I thought they looked like resin.
Leaders lead, their followers are lead. The dyslexia of long-dead pedants notwithstanding :)
- This message brought to you by The Campaign For The Use Of English As She Is Spoke or Rit :)
To be fair, they did hit the Orc Pike like a lead weight!
Cheatin' Luddite reactionaries. The Orc Pike are the wave of the future, the march of progress, but all the lords and godly leeches want to do is roll back to a miffic past where they can ride around slaughtering the down trodden, pretending to be heroes. In fact, the Orcs are so good, and the reactionaries so bad, it takes a literal act of (a, minor) god to win.
Next time, next time. You can't hold back the flood!
Ahem, prod! ;)
The bears have made it onto Techno's current sculpting list, so I've not added the more recent requests for them. They're still up there at No.2 in the Requests and will be appearing this year.
Right then.....
Do I base them on our '10mm' scale......Or a tad bigger for the fantasy scale ? (Probably won't notice the difference ??).....Personal thought is bigger the better.
Wax 5 on standby. :)......I'll put them on the desk next. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Give us a berward too, so that non-fantasy armies can have a colourful vignette for camps.
Stroll on.....I just looked up the relative sizes of bears......
I'll probably base these on the Brown bear, rather than the grizzly....'cos they're bigger....But for the one standing upright, on its hind legs, that's going to make 'him' about 21mm tall. :o :o
IIRC the only bear that I've ever seen 'in the flesh' was a polar bear, at some zoo or other when I was about 13...strangely, I don't remember that bear striking me as massive....maybe it wasn't fully grown. :-\
(Polar bears are apparently even taller than brown bears if they stand upright...URK !!) :o
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 10 January 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Stroll on.
...strangely, I don't remember that bear striking me...
Cheers - Phil
He looked at you, saw all the things you'd be doing to yourself, and realised that striking you would be wasted effort.
Quote from: Techno on 10 January 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Stroll on.....I just looked up the relative sizes of bears......
I'll probably base these on the Brown bear, rather than the grizzly....'cos they're bigger....But for the one standing upright, on its hind legs, that's going to make 'him' about 21mm tall. :o :o
IIRC the only bear that I've ever seen 'in the flesh' was a polar bear, at some zoo or other when I was about 13...strangely, I don't remember that bear striking me as massive....maybe it wasn't fully grown. :-
(Polar bears are apparently even taller than brown bears if they stand upright...URK !!) :o
Cheers - Phil
Last time I saw a polar bear it was swimming in a glass fronted enclosure. When it put its paws on the glass they were the size of dinner plates.
Just found this:-
Height:
Polar bear: 1.8 – 2.4 m,
Giant panda: 60 – 90 cm,
Brown bear: 70 – 150 cm
Length:
Polar bear: 2.4 – 3 m,
Giant panda: 1.2 – 1.9 m,
Mass:
Polar bear: 450 kg,
Giant panda: 70 – 100 kg,
Apparently a Grizzley can weigh 700Kg
Black bears are 1.5m, stand 2m tall, and can take the roof off a car to find food easier than Techno slicing his finger open on a can of Spam!
In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear
conflicts, the Montana Department of Fish and Game
is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra
precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field.
We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on
their clothing so as not to startle the bears that aren't
expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry
pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a
bear.
It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear
activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference
between black bear and grizzly bear poop. Black bear poop
is smaller and contains a lot of berry seeds and squirrel fur.
Grizzly bear poop has little bells in it and smells like pepper
spray.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Techno on 10 January 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Stroll on.....I just looked up the relative sizes of bears......
I'll probably base these on the Brown bear, rather than the grizzly....'cos they're bigger....But for the one standing upright, on its hind legs, that's going to make 'him' about 21mm tall. :o :o
IIRC the only bear that I've ever seen 'in the flesh' was a polar bear, at some zoo or other when I was about 13...strangely, I don't remember that bear striking me as massive....maybe it wasn't fully grown. :-
(Polar bears are apparently even taller than brown bears if they stand upright...URK !!) :o
Cheers - Phil
Brown bears are the most naturally variable wild species on earth, showing size variance to rival domestic dogs :-B
A number of scientists have gone mad studying bears because of this - I remember once reading a paper where someone claimed there were 35+ distinct sub-species of brown bear in the USA alone 8-}
If some of the figures are going to be armoured, polar bears might be the best to aim for proportion wise (they're fairly gracile compared to other bears): sticking armour onto a big, fluffy Kodiak/grizzly base might make them too bulky.
Cheers!
Meirion
PS My palaeontology M.Sc dissertation was on whether you could reliably differentiate between cave and brown bears just using the size of their teeth - you'd better (not?) ask my wife whether studying bears affected my sanity... :-$
PPS You can... ;)
I've done a quick check against one of the new fantasy figures*....and 21mm tall for the bear should work pretty well (I think).
Cheers - Phil
*I nearly gave a much too big a clue as to what one lot are...Not saying anything until Leon 'sez I can.' :D
I remember years ago reading a sign in Yosemite warning that if you left food in your vehicle/campsite that caused a bear to attack it you would be fined :o
Can we have a prehistoric short faced bear please, oh and a werebear or two if we are talking fantasy like?
Maybe a shape-shifting bear as well.
Just thought I'd throw my paw in the ring so to speak :D
Quote from: Big Insect on 10 January 2020, 09:49:41 PM
Can we have a prehistoric short faced bear please, oh and a werebear or two if we are talking fantasy like?
Maybe a shape-shifting bear as well.
Just thought I'd throw my paw in the ring so to speak :D
Yeah, a short-faces bear would be awesome AND scary 8->
Quote from: O Dinas Powys on 10 January 2020, 01:31:34 PM
Brown bears are the most naturally variable wild species on earth, showing size variance to rival domestic dogs :-B
A number of scientists have gone mad studying bears because of this - I remember once reading a paper where someone claimed there were 35+ distinct sub-species of brown bear in the USA alone 8-}
If some of the figures are going to be armoured, polar bears might be the best to aim for proportion wise (they're fairly gracile compared to other bears): sticking armour onto a big, fluffy Kodiak/grizzly base might make them too bulky.
Cheers!
Meirion
PS My palaeontology M.Sc dissertation was on whether you could reliably differentiate between cave and brown bears just using the size of their teeth - you'd better (not?) ask my wife whether studying bears affected my sanity... :-$
PPS You can... ;)
Bergmann's Rule "Creatures grow larger in cold climates" seems particularly suited for a large hibernating animal.
If some of your bears are bipedal, they could also serve as Rikshas (Bar people from classical indian folklore).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_in_Hindu_mythology#Rikshas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_in_Hindu_mythology#Rikshas)
Quote from: Big Insect on 10 January 2020, 09:49:41 PM
Can we have a prehistoric short faced bear please, oh and a werebear or two if we are talking fantasy like?
Maybe a shape-shifting bear as well.
Just thought I'd throw my paw in the ring so to speak :D
Go away ! :P ;).....You and Leon should get some piccies of other stuff later. :D
Cheers - Phil
Phil - WORK FASTER !!!!
Not a chance !
Well you couldn't go much slower !! ;D ;D
Nah....
For what I can make on an hourly rate ? =O =O =O
I've got way beyond the point where I'd rather have some sort of life.
You don't have a frigging clue.
That point was during the last Ice Age!