You do army packs. Have you considered doing similar but set units.
eg WSS
1 pack command
1 Pack grenadiers
4 Packs Musketeers
This gives 5 36 man battalions- two command groups (so 1 Kings Standard, 1 Regimental), 6 Grenadiers on the right flank and 24 Musketeers. This gives a frontage of 18, 2 deep- this is how I have mine
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/4945670691/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/4945670691/)
Obviously different make up for different armies/periods.
This provides a nice solid core to an army
We do chat about different compositions for the army packs regularly, but there's never been something which seemed to 'fit' all the periods nicely. The current ones aren't made up to any particular set of rules or army list, but they do give a good starting point for anyone to get going with. Then folk can add the extra bits and pieces around them.
The most recent discussion was about whether bigger packs would sell, 'Battle packs' almost. The idea would be to take two opposing armies, eg ACW Union / Confed, Repub Romans / Carthage, etc. and make a slightly bigger pair of armies, some buildings, flags, bases maybe, etc. Package it all up nicely in a big box and price it with a nice discount on.
Quote from: Leon on 22 January 2014, 01:07:50 AM
Package it all up nicely in a big box and price it with a nice discount on.
To tempt independent game shops to stock them?
Quote from: Sandinista on 22 January 2014, 07:19:51 AM
To tempt independent game shops to stock them?
Aren't you then into extra expense for fancy retail packaging?
I like the brigade idea, especially if there were infantry packs and cavalry packs.
It might be worth getting 1000pt warmaster armies together in one box
pleas don't think me being silly but what is warmaster?
Warmaster is an old fantasy GW game by Rick Priestley. It was then developed into Warmaster Ancients, the historical version. The former is available as a free download IIRC. Hail Caesar is arguably the latest development of Warmaster. Hope this helps?
Quote from: Fenton on 22 January 2014, 03:00:20 PM
It might be worth getting 1000pt warmaster armies together in one box
We do those already, and have taken them to the shows for years. The problem was that they sold so slowly that it wasn't worth carrying them about everywhere. I don't know if that was due to people not using those rules anymore, or the higher price tag being a factor, not sure.
Thanks for that information. Up to now my hands haven't been sullied by any GW games tho I have used their paints when nothing else was available. Hey just noticed I've been promoted to second lieutenant whoopee! Also I would second Last Hussar's idea about brigade packs. esp the WSS one It would fit in nicely with the first ever rules I used more years ago than I care to remember. where each battalion had five blocks of figures so 36 (24musketeers +6 grenadiers) would mean that each brigade would have five battalions of musketeers and one of combined grenadiers perfect.
Quote from: Nirnman on 22 January 2014, 06:40:00 PM
Hey just noticed I've been promoted to second lieutenant whoopee! Also I would second Last Hussar's idea about brigade
Congratulations Nirman ;)
It's a slippery slope :D
Well done Nirman. 8)
I picked up one of the Arab army packs at Carronade one year as the starting point for a warmaster army as the number of miniatures in the range was smaller so it made sense to get them that way, but all my WW2 Germans I've ordered the big army packs via the website after sitting down, working out the contents and sorting out my army lists to see what I can get in bulk and what I need to pick up separately, and occasionally picked up some odds and ends off the stall at Carronade or Claymore.
But Brigade packs would be ideal, I know it's more difficult to try and sort that out for different periods/systems, but likewise I'm fairly sold on Pendraken for the majority of my stuff now so when I get round to my next project a big army pack or being able to pick and choose from a set of Brigade type packs would be great. (even if it's just available from the website)
I suggested it because the 'Army packs' I find are too broad, a bit of everything, so you end up with bits left over.
That composition was just a suggestion, based partly on what I did, but also heavily influenced by the maths to give complete packs - it is actually 6 x 6 man bases multiplied up to use all the figures in the command pack. 6 figure fit nicely on a 20mm - 1 inch base, and I find a 36 man battalion pleasing to the eye - it seems the right proportion.
It was suggested as a way to tempt rather than a suggestion of discount, but you could do a deal - buy a Division (2 x Infantry Brigade, 1 Cavalry, 2 packs of Artillery, and you'll throw in the 4 Generals free.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 22 January 2014, 08:16:19 PM
I suggested it because the 'Army packs' I find are too broad, a bit of everything, so you end up with bits left over.
Those aren't "bits left over" they're "inspiration for conversions" :)
It's a tricky one, and we do chat about it regularly, The problem is that as soon as you put together a pack with a certain composition, folks want one slightly different. Or if you do something for one set of rules, people then want them for a different set. Then you've got to add them all to the website, and take them to the shows, otherwise people get annoyed that you haven't got what they want on the show stand..., etc.
We will keep thinking about it, and once we've got the new show stand finished off, we can see what else we can fit on it.
I'm not keen. I've written before that I'd like Napoleonics for example, to be split into command and ... not command.
I'm looking to have big battalions (50-60) figs so am likely to end up with a lot of opportunities for conversion standard bearers.
Are the Warmaster armies those listed on the website as 1000 point packs?
I have looked at them and wondered what rules they were for.
Fair enough Leon - To be honest I suppose was thinking more along the lines of "Serving Suggestions", rather than something you take along to shows. "You could have an army like this for ...". They would not be anything tricky for you - the army packs contain half packs, which seems awkward. Rather "Bde1 = 1 x cmd, 4 x musket, 1 x Grenadier: £27. makes 5 36 man battalions" I'd find that more useful that the current army packs.
I'd happily do the maths for you (for free!)
Quote from: fateeore on 22 January 2014, 10:11:48 PM
Are the Warmaster armies those listed on the website as 1000 point packs?
Yep, that's them. We could never call them Warmaster armies for fear of the GW stompy machine...
Quote from: Last Hussar on 23 January 2014, 12:09:55 AM
Fair enough Leon - To be honest I suppose was thinking more along the lines of "Serving Suggestions", rather than something you take along to shows. "You could have an army like this for ...". They would not be anything tricky for you - the army packs contain half packs, which seems awkward. Rather "Bde1 = 1 x cmd, 4 x musket, 1 x Grenadier: £27. makes 5 36 man battalions" I'd find that more useful that the current army packs.
I'd happily do the maths for you (for free!)
We'll have a think, got quite a bit of other stuff on the plate at the moment, so we'll come back to it sometime.
Bearing in mind that there are so many different periods and even more varieties of rules, wouldn't it be simpler just to give discounts on bulk purchases? For example, 10% off orders over £100. That would give the purchaser the freedom to choose whatever fitted with his rules/organisation whilst offering an incentive to buy in quantity. Like most people I have a entire drawerful of leftover figures from various periods. Buying fixed organisational quantities is only going to compound the problem.
Yep, a straight volume discount would provide maximum flexibility while rewarding larger purchases. If you want to use the discount to move slower items, army packs are the way to go.
Quote from: Leon on 23 January 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Yep, that's them. We could never call them Warmaster armies for fear of the GW stompy machine...
These days a GW C&D appears to be a useful marketing tool.
Though I take on board why you don't want to have to deal with the hassle.
Greetings
I normally find I can use army packs pretty well. The exceptions are usually multiple packs where I may not need all the Prussian 1870 jager for example.
Taking the 1809 packs I will end up with 2 x Austro-Hungarian and 2 x Austrian which will give me:
(a) 6x German and 6x Hungarian fusilier battalions in two brigades, 2x grenadier battalions (one Hungarian, one German),
(b) a wing (4 squadrons) of Chevaulegers and a regiment of dragoons (or some mix thereof as the figure does for both)
(c) the 6# guns (excluding howitzers) for 2 brigade batteries and 2 position batteries.
To that I have/will add some high command, mounted officers, Grenzers, howitzers, limbers and in due course will add 12# guns, Hussars, Uhlans, probably Erzhog Karl Legion, Landwehr, Jagers and possibly Cuirassiers. The real issue will be painting them given I've got my SYW to break the back of first.
Regards
Edward
Quote from: Hertsblue on 23 January 2014, 09:08:55 AM
Bearing in mind that there are so many different periods and even more varieties of rules, wouldn't it be simpler just to give discounts on bulk purchases? For example, 10% off orders over £100.
We do unofficially offer people some bonus freebies on bigger orders, but it's all done manually, as it's not coded into the website. It depends what you order as well, as things like the big BKC packs are already discounted by 15%, so having an automated discount in place would knock another 10% of those when bought in bulk.
As has been said the various periods and rules
could make the idea very hard to manage.
Also brigades in the early 18th century were largely
ad hoc formations and not of a permanent nature. The
late Napoleonic period could also prove difficult
given the small size of units after campaign losses.
Chad
I find that most army packs are not exactly what I want. I end up adding to it from the single packs. Even the 1000 point armies may not fit in with the foeces you wantn to field. As Leon says this is a minefield.
The issue with larger packs is even with the significant 15% discount on a BKC army pack, it only needs to have a pack or two or a couple of vehicles you do not need to nullify any saving made.
Obviously in this months sale the saving is about 25%, due in part to the labour involved in repackaging the said Armies, however in general this was on a purchase of £100 retail
The question I would ask is
Does a saving of 10-15% on an Army pack actually get you to buy a pack you would not have bought at normal price?
While this saving is nice to the individual it is worth remembering this is money effectively taken out of Dave and Leons pockets. Who I think we all appreciate are working a lot of hours for the money they recieve.
We all agree that we recive excellent service and value from Pendraken at the normal retail price, so should we be really looking for a discount on a relatively small purchase?
As per a previous thread - I personaly think as wargamers we are being subsidised.
I don't tend to buy army packs for the very reason the stuff I don't want nullifies the saving. I wasn't suggesting 'Brigade Packs' are discounted - I just thought it might be a promo headline "This code contains all you need for a command". Thinking about it it doesn't need extra resources, either on line or at a show - it is just a set collection of packs.
Like I say, just a passing idea.
Just idea? But since you are doing 4-3 on army packs. Why not something on the packs say, 10 packs one free or something like that. Buy so many tanks and get command tank free etc. :-\
Quote from: MR T on 24 January 2014, 09:54:29 PM
Just idea? But since you are doing 4-3 on army packs. Why not something on the packs say, 10 packs one free or something like that. Buy so many tanks and get command tank free etc. :-\
Do you fly?
Just out of interest, how are the mould laid out - is 1 pack usually one shot? I ask because the army packs often contain 1/2 packs. Is this less economical?
Quote from: Last Hussar on 24 January 2014, 11:28:49 PM
Just out of interest, how are the mould laid out - is 1 pack usually one shot? I ask because the army packs often contain 1/2 packs. Is this less economical?
I would love to know the answer to this...
Not for financial reasons: I think your product is really good value. But because I'm interested in the whole mold, production, melting, metally, thingness of it :)
Each mould usually contains a full pack, with a few spares, so 35-36 foot figures, and 15-18 cavalry. 1/2 packs are usually not much hassle, as we keep the other half as spares for the next time.
Personally I tend to get "army" packs plus add-ons for most ranges I get.
For example, the Peter Pig platoon pack plus some add on packs of figures for CoC or Pendraken battle packs for WW2 Eastern Front plus a shed load of add=ons!!.
The extras become conversion fodder. If I have an idea for a conversion and it doesn't quite work, well I wasn't going to use the figure anyway.
Being half scot/half Yorkshire, it makes me wonder if any spare figures we have could be traded in for others. Say on a two or three for one basis to cover the factory's costs? A way to get rid of all the unused odds and ends we've all doubtless got lying around!
Sorry just realised when i meant packs. I meant the standard 30 figure pack, not the army pack doh!
Quote from: andys on 25 January 2014, 09:55:48 PM
Being half scot/half Yorkshire, it makes me wonder if any spare figures we have could be traded in for others. Say on a two or three for one basis to cover the factory's costs? A way to get rid of all the unused odds and ends we've all doubtless got lying around!
I reckon to cover costs it would be nearer 10:1 in PD's favour :)
personally i like to buy packs i enjoy going thru lists making orders waiting for the postman one day i may even wargame with them
Quote from: conster on 27 January 2014, 10:47:50 PM
personally i like to buy packs i enjoy going thru lists making orders waiting for the postman one day i may even wargame with them
I don't think you're alone there, Conster. :)